Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Pope Gaycis: something something gun manufacturers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pope Gaycis: something something gun manufacturers

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...lves-christian

    "Pope Francis suggests those in weapons industry can't call themselves Christian" says the Guardian. The title is a lie judging by his actual words but he does mumble some incoherent drivel along those lines:

    “If you trust only men you have lost,” he told the young people in a longcommentary about war, trust and politics, after putting aside his prepared address.

    “It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?” he said to applause.
    I wonder if this applies to the blacksmiths who produced weapons for the Crusaders his predecessors sent to their deaths.

    He also criticised those who invest in weapons industries, saying “duplicity is the currency of today ... they say one thing and do another.”
    He has a point. For example the Catholic Church claims to oppose homosexuality and abortion but shuffles around gay priests who have sex with teenage boys to avoid prosecution and happily tolerates far left abortion supporting politicians to keep the shekels coming.

    Moderated By: rogue06


    Edited as per poster's request

    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

    Last edited by rogue06; 06-23-2015, 08:12 AM.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  • #2
    Pope Gaycis?

    Real mature.

    Comment


    • #3
      Given that Jesus told his disciples to carry swords, a blanket condemnation of all weapons makes no sense in the context of Christianity. Did he just mean nukes?
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        He has a point. For example the Catholic Church claims to oppose homosexuality and abortion but shuffles around gay priests who have sex with teenage boys...
        They have graduated to teenage boys?
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          Given that Jesus told his disciples to carry swords, a blanket condemnation of all weapons makes no sense in the context of Christianity. Did he just mean nukes?
          He meant semi-automatic swords with reloadable blades.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...lves-christian

            "Pope Francis suggests those in weapons industry can't call themselves Christian" says the Guardian.
            Well that seems a reasonable position. I think the teachings of Christianity are fundamentally inconsistent with those who base their livelihoods on the suffering of others, and the destruction of the planet.

            For example the Catholic Church claims to oppose homosexuality and abortion but shuffles around gay priests who have sex with teenage boys to avoid prosecution
            To be fair to the Catholic Church (words I never thought I would ever say), that was kind of the previous Pope and he kind of got replaced because of it. The new Pope has a more open policy on dealing with pedophiles rather than covering for them and shuffling them around like the previous Pope, and the new Pope says 'who am I to judge' on gay issues rather than calling it an 'intrinsic disorder'.

            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            Given that Jesus told his disciples to carry swords, a blanket condemnation of all weapons makes no sense in the context of Christianity.

            There are plenty of Christians who think Jesus taught complete pacifism.

            I would personally say that, on balance, Jesus' teachings on violence are best interpreted as meaning he intended his protest movement to be non-violent in its methods (unlike many other reform movements in Judea at the time that used armed rebellion as their main methodology), but advocating for change in a non-violent way doesn't equate to teachings of complete pacifism in all forms of life.

            The verse you mention about buying swords runs contrary to the entire theme of a non-violent movement in the rest of the gospels ("he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" etc), so it provides rather thin support for the idea that Jesus was pro-weapons. The difficulty then becomes how to interpret the pro-weapons passage in Luke 22 in a way that is consistent with the rest of Jesus' teachings: The generally preferred interpretation seems to be along the lines of observing that when the disciples say they have two swords Jesus says that having two swords is "enough" for his purposes of fulfill the prophecy that he will be labelled a revolutionary by the authorities and condemned for it (whereas two swords is obviously not enough to achieve anything meaningful by violent means).
            Last edited by Starlight; 06-22-2015, 10:35 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              They have graduated to teenage boys?
              I'm guessing you think your denomination could never be guilty of such hypocrisy? Remove the log from your own eye, judge not lest ye be judged.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                I'm guessing you think your denomination could never be guilty of such hypocrisy? Remove the log from your own eye, judge not lest ye be judged.
                By "guessing" you're also judging.
                "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Well that seems a reasonable position. I think the teachings of Christianity are fundamentally inconsistent with those who base their livelihoods on the suffering of others, and the destruction of the planet.
                  Non-violence does not reduce suffering or prevent the destruction of the planet.

                  To be fair to the Catholic Church (words I never thought I would ever say), that was kind of the previous Pope and he kind of got replaced because of it. The new Pope has a more open policy on dealing with pedophiles rather than covering for them and shuffling them around like the previous Pope, and the new Pope says 'who am I to judge' on gay issues rather than calling it an 'intrinsic disorder'.
                  The "pedophiles" were mostly gays and this pope has decided that having a bunch of gay priests ruin his church's reputation means he should judge less. He's an idiot at best.


                  There are plenty of Christians who think Jesus taught complete pacifism.
                  Yes, and there are plenty of Christians who think Jesus taught abortion/gay marriage when He said "love your neighbour". There's no shortage of stupid, evil Christians.

                  I would personally say that, on balance, Jesus' teachings on violence are best interpreted as meaning he intended his protest movement to be non-violent in its methods (unlike many other reform movements in Judea at the time that used armed rebellion as their main methodology), but advocating for change in a non-violent way doesn't equate to teachings of complete pacifism in all forms of life.
                  I agree, except for the last part. Pacifism is an is/isn't sort of thing. You can't be a "partial pacifist", either you oppose violence in all areas of life or you're not really a pacifist.

                  The verse you mention about buying swords runs contrary to the entire theme of a non-violent movement in the rest of the gospels ("he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" etc),
                  That was a warning to Peter that he'd get killed if he tried to fight off a mob, not a blanket ban on never using violence. Jesus had already told Peter not to interfere with His mission the night before.

                  so it provides rather thin support for the idea that Jesus was pro-weapons. The difficulty then becomes how to interpret the pro-weapons passage in Luke 22 in a way that is consistent with the rest of Jesus' teachings: The generally preferred interpretation seems to be along the lines of observing that when the disciples say they have two swords Jesus says that having two swords is "enough" for his purposes of fulfill the prophecy that he will be labelled a revolutionary by the authorities and condemned for it (whereas two swords is obviously not enough to achieve anything meaningful by violent means).
                  Swords don't have to be just for organized rebellion, they could be for general self defense even if you're not planning armed insurrection. Note that the group already had swords before Jesus told them that, so fulfilling prophecy was not their only utility.
                  "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                  There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post

                    There are plenty of Christians who think Jesus taught complete pacifism.

                    There are plenty of Christians who think dead people become angels.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      I'm guessing you think your denomination could never be guilty of such hypocrisy?
                      My denomination doesn't knowingly hire homosexual ministers.

                      Remove the log from your own eye, judge not lest ye be judged.
                      You first.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OP should say "far left abortion supporting politicians", can a mod fix that plz.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          My denomination doesn't knowingly hire homosexual ministers.
                          You mean "practicing", right?
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            You mean "practicing", right?
                            Hmmmm... if, for example, I was hiring a youth minister, and a person identifying as a homosexual applied for that job, I'd have a real hard time hiring them. Certainly not a "practicing" homosexual. This may be a whole new thread.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Hmmmm... if, for example, I was hiring a youth minister, and a person identifying as a homosexual applied for that job, I'd have a real hard time hiring them. Certainly not a "practicing" homosexual. This may be a whole new thread.
                              I think you may be missing out there. Gays make very good clergy.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by LiconaFan97, Yesterday, 04:56 PM
                              17 responses
                              92 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by Juvenal, Yesterday, 11:08 AM
                              9 responses
                              71 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Stoic
                              by Stoic
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 08:52 AM
                              6 responses
                              61 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Ronson, 10-22-2020, 10:59 PM
                              11 responses
                              326 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by seer, 10-22-2020, 02:50 PM
                              24 responses
                              159 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Ronson
                              by Ronson
                               
                              Working...
                              X