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Church shooting in South Carolina

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  • Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Oh well, leave to MSM not to get a story like this right.
    It's the 24 hour news cycle - they are more interested in being first than being right. Do you find some other credible source to back up the notion that Roof did NOT buy the gun personally?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      It's the 24 hour news cycle - they are more interested in being first than being right. Do you find some other credible source to back up the notion that Roof did NOT buy the gun personally?
      Dude, I concede that the current story you showed is likely true.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Dude,
        That's really not necessary.

        I concede that the current story you showed is likely true.
        I'm ASKING because I don't know... if other sources got it wrong, this one could too!

        You can be such a ......
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          That's really not necessary.



          I'm ASKING because I don't know... if other sources got it wrong, this one could too!

          You can be such a ......
          Edited by a Moderator

          Moderated By: QuantaFille

          That is uncalled for.

          ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
          Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

          Last edited by QuantaFille; 06-23-2015, 05:28 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            And people like him would not have been allowed to get the gun licence.
            Based on what?
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              Based on what?
              based on the fact that he is pending a federal felony charge as detailed by LPoT
              Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
              1 Corinthians 16:13

              "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
              -Ben Witherington III

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                S
                You are such a girl.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                  The thing is your Constitution couldgrant gun laws to the federal government with another amendment. It's a living document, it can be changed.
                  Sure, but this would require 38 states to first approve of an amendment. Meaning 38 state houses and senates would first have to approve the amendment, before they could do it. I doubt anybody currently would be able to get 38 state's to do so.

                  That's the point of what I am meaning, He shouldn't have been allowed to purchase a gun. Every country I have lived in you have to have a gun licence to purchase a gun. And people like him would not have been allowed to get the gun licence.
                  And yet, other countries still have shootings too and this is just a guess to begin with. The problem has to do with the evil in heart's of men and people willing to commit murder would fall under that.

                  We do it in this country, it works reasonable well. You want a to buy a gun? you need a current gun licence. You want a gun licence, you have to do training, pass a test and the cops come and inspect your house to make sure you have a safe etc. for keeping said guns in. And I have mates who own lots of guns and have no problems with going that.
                  Gun safes only work, if they are used. Is there a guarantee that people will use their gun safe, every single time or keep it locked and secured? No. People don't use their blinkers, when they go to make turns and seem to think many traffic laws don't apply to them, so are they necessarily going to follow all laws, all the time? No. Considering how people treat their 3,000+lbs machine of potential death, well I doubt these laws are always followed.

                  Did you not see the recent one in the US where a little boy (IIRC under 5) from Kentucky shot his sister with his Cricket .22, a gun specifically marketed for young children.
                  Which had to be bought by somebody over the age of 18. I've seen those guns in the gun shop before and I think they look cheap (and likely are as cheap as they look). Besides, they come with their own safety lock as their web site says:

                  Q. How do I know if my rifle is equipped with an Internal Safety Lock?
                  A. The Internal Safety Lock is located on the bottom of the stock in between the trigger guard and the take down screw.
                  ....
                  Q. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
                  A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
                  http://www.crickett.com/crickett_faqs.php

                  Sounds like to me, nobody bothered to use the lock that came with the gun and a predictable tragic moment happened as a result.

                  I have no problem with kids learning to shoot at a young age (I started when I was about 4-ish using my dad's old air rifle). I have a problem when guns are marketed as if they were just another toy for kids.
                  I don't think they are marketed as toys at all. This being an example of that:

                  Q. Will the ADULT .22 stock fit on regular .22 Crickett Rifles?
                  A. YES, The only difference is the ADULT stock is 1 1/2" longer.
                  http://www.crickett.com/crickett_faqs.php

                  They are not toys and they are made to be toys. They require background checks, just like any other gun. They are sold by licensed dealers, they are designed with interchangeable parts so they could be easily upgraded as the child grows, and they come with gun lock safety features built into the rifle to prevent children from using the rifle without an adult present. They are not toys and I don't believe they are marketed as toys. They are marked as having smaller stocks, for easier time for children to use.

                  *edited to add*

                  I just wanted to make a note that I always appreciate your input Raphael and I'm not trying to be mean about it at all. I just find that many gun control measures take in assumptions that I don't find as always consistent or practical. I know a firearm can easily be a machine of death and I treat it as such. Sad to say, many don't and many people don't treat many things around them as the machines of death they could be. A car moving at 40 KPH can easily kill somebody and a pool can also drown a child quite quickly. People often don't seem to get that and somebody getting hurt or killed is the natural results of their carelessness. Same can be said with gun safety too. All of them ones I've bought come with a 10 rules of gun safety pamphlet that, if followed, would prevent the case you brought up and ones like it. Yet, people ignore safety and bad things happen as a result.
                  Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 06-23-2015, 06:05 PM.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Sure, but this would require 38 states to first approve of an amendment. Meaning 38 state houses and senates would first have to approve the amendment, before they could do it. I doubt anybody currently would be able to get 38 state's to do so.
                    but not outside of the realm of possibility. Especially if it was framed to only bring in some basic things.


                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    And yet, other countries still have shootings too and this is just a guess to begin with. The problem has to do with the evil in heart's of men and people willing to commit murder would fall under that.
                    I know, I used to live in a Country that has a WAY WAY higher gun homicide rate. But we're talking about trying to reduce the number. to make it so it's a little harder for the nutters to get guns.

                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Gun safes only work, if they are used. Is there a guarantee that people will use their gun safe, every single time or keep it locked and secured? No. People don't use their blinkers, when they go to make turns and seem to think many traffic laws don't apply to them, so are they necessarily going to follow all laws, all the time? No. Considering how people treat their 3,000+lbs machine of potential death, well I doubt these laws are always followed.
                    Now you're being ridiculous. By your argument we should get rid of the road laws because stupid people ignore them.
                    It's simple, You want a gun, have a valid current gun licence.
                    You want a gun licence, you need to show that you know how to use one, know the basics of safety, have a safe place for it to be kept.

                    Sure it won't stop all the issues, but it should bring about a reduction in them


                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Which had to be bought by somebody over the age of 18. I've seen those guns in the gun shop before and I think they look cheap (and likely are as cheap as they look). Besides, they come with their own safety lock as their web site says:

                    Q. How do I know if my rifle is equipped with an Internal Safety Lock?
                    A. The Internal Safety Lock is located on the bottom of the stock in between the trigger guard and the take down screw.
                    ....
                    Q. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
                    A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
                    http://www.crickett.com/crickett_faqs.php

                    Sounds like to me, nobody bothered to use the lock that came with the gun and a predictable tragic moment happened as a result.



                    I don't think they are marketed as toys at all. This being an example of that:

                    Q. Will the ADULT .22 stock fit on regular .22 Crickett Rifles?
                    A. YES, The only difference is the ADULT stock is 1 1/2" longer.
                    http://www.crickett.com/crickett_faqs.php

                    They are not toys and they are made to be toys. They require background checks, just like any other gun. They are sold by licensed dealers, they are designed with interchangeable parts so they could be easily upgraded as the child grows, and they come with gun lock safety features built into the rifle to prevent children from using the rifle without an adult present. They are not toys and I don't believe they are marketed as toys. They are marked as having smaller stocks, for easier time for children to use.
                    I still think they shouldn't have been marketed for kids. (

                    (NOTE: I am not saying smaller guuns shouldn't be made and sold. it's the marketing I'm objecting to
                    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                    1 Corinthians 16:13

                    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                    -Ben Witherington III

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                      based on the fact that he is pending a federal felony charge as detailed by LPoT
                      That was a false early report by the NYT. He was charged with a misdemeanor and seeing how it was a minor drug charge (he was getting high off prescription medication) it's uncertain if he would have been charged at all in most of the Western world.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                        but not outside of the realm of possibility. Especially if it was framed to only bring in some basic things.
                        And I don't think it is currently ever going to get past the US legislator, let alone 38 states. Besides, lots of people are always concerned when the government gets access to tons of personal information and there is good cause for it. How many hacks has the US government had just over the past decade? Lots of people might want profiles of millions of American's personal medical and criminal history, for a range of reasons. I'm sure lots of places and government agencies would be very interested in getting a hold of that sort of information.

                        I know, I used to live in a Country that has a WAY WAY higher gun homicide rate. But we're talking about trying to reduce the number. to make it so it's a little harder for the nutters to get guns.
                        From what I've discovered, many criminals get their guns illegally and there is nothing stopping them from doing the Sandy Hook shooter thing and just stealing them from a relative that would be able to pass the background checks. If somebody wants to shoot up a place they will likely find ways to do it or find some other way to spread their violence and evil around. I'd love to see reductions myself, but I like to see it not lead to unforeseen consequences and issues too (like people hacking government servers to steal loads of personal information or government agencies using this info for things beyond gun control measures).

                        Now you're being ridiculous. By your argument we should get rid of the road laws because stupid people ignore them.
                        It's simple, You want a gun, have a valid current gun licence.
                        You want a gun licence, you need to show that you know how to use one, know the basics of safety, have a safe place for it to be kept.
                        I'm not being ridiculous at all because people drive around their 3,000+ lbs machines of potential death and treat them as though the dangers do not exist all the time. Despite the fact a written test is given (to show you understand the basic laws) and a ride along drivers test is also given (to show you can apply these laws), yet just driving around town I have found many people who seem to drop everything they were suppose to know when they ride around their potential machines of death. If people ignore the obvious dangers of a car, which could crush you like an egg (even at mild speeds), what makes you believe they will always follow the safety standards of storing and handling their firearms? I know I've had to get after a few people, who should know better, who do pretty silly things down at the range. People can do very stupid things, when handling their potential killing machines. Rather this machine has 4 wheels and rolls around town, fires metal slugs out of a barrel, or is just a giant tub of water.

                        Sure it won't stop all the issues, but it should bring about a reduction in them
                        Maybe yes or maybe no, but I see how people treat lots of very dangerous things around them, so I will not hold my breath.

                        I still think they shouldn't have been marketed for kids. (

                        (NOTE: I am not saying smaller guuns shouldn't be made and sold. it's the marketing I'm objecting to
                        I don't think they are marketing to kids at all as they are marketing to the parents, as the language of their material shows. The FAQ I linked to sounds like it is talking to adults and not children at all. Or as the Mossberg youth shotgun says:

                        From EZ-Reach forends located closer to the receiver to its innovative super bantam stock spacer adjustment system designed to grow with the shooter, Mossberg is one of the industry’s strongest advocates for promoting safe, enjoyable youth recreational shooting.
                        http://www.mossberg.com/category/ser...h-500-505-510/

                        This language, to me, sounds like the intended audience is parents and not children.

                        Or like I found on the reviews here:

                        " This is the first shot gun for my son. He shot 2 boxes of shells in the first weekend. Good shooting well balanced for smaller shooters. Good gun and comes with certificate to purchase discount barrel and stock as he grows. "

                        Again, sounds like a parent talking to other parents, about something they found.

                        Here is another sports store advertising this same gun too here:

                        "This Mossberg® Youth 500® Bantam™ 20 Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun is great for young hunters and small-stature adults with its reduced LOP, EZ-reach™ forearm and shortened barrel and pistol grip. The gun features dual extractors, twin action bars, positive steel-to-steel lockup and an antijam elevator along with an easy-to-access, top-mounted safety."

                        This one seems to be talking to both myself (since I do find this one easier for my use vs a larger one) and parents again.

                        Or getting into the Crickett one you mentioned earlier, here is an advertisement for one at a store here in the states:

                        "If you’re looking for a fun firearm to get your young shooter started with, consider these single-shot rimfire options. Each bolt-action model sports a blued barrel and the added safety feature of being able to shoot only one round at a time. This also teaches beginning shooters to make every shot count. All are lightweight and easy for youngsters to carry at the range and in the woods."

                        Sounds like, to me, that the marketing here is to parents and not children. Besides, reading more on the story in question, which you mentioned the shooting taking part with this .22 rifle, I seriously doubt that Crickett, nor any gun manufacturer, would seriously tell you to treat it as a toy. In fact, I found this safety thing on their web site, which specifically says not to play with a gun. Simply put, sounds like mom was irresponsible, perhaps even criminally irresponsible.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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