Another Christian Being Offered On The PC Alter?

[Tassman]

Again Tass, who are the ones that are enforcing speech codes of college campuses? Who invented Political Correctness? These things are designed to LIMIT speech. Who are the ones that would force by law a Christian to participate in a Gay wedding by making a cake or taking photos. When absolutely NO HARM came to the Gay couples in question. Who has now invented "micro-aggressions" - again in an attempt to LIMIT speech. You leftists are are control freaks - who knows where it will stop.

More to the point who are the ones attempting to subvert the secular laws of a secular state by demanding special treatment?

[Tassman]

I will actively ignore this stupidity

So you’re saying that Jewish Law is stupid?

In Jewish law human life begins at birth, that is, at the time when the child is more than halfway emerged from the mother's body. Thus there is no "murder of a human being" in the womb. An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" and while potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, it does not have as much value as a life in existence.

http://www.jewfaq.org/birth.htm

Where exactly did Jesus, as a Jew, overturn this Law and that regarding abortion?

http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Abortion

since it is a post by Tassman, thus drivel.

…as opposed to a typical post by Jedidiah, namely a content-free ad hom!

[Abigail]

So you’re saying that Jewish Law is stupid?

In Jewish law human life begins at birth, that is, at the time when the child is more than halfway emerged from the mother's body. Thus there is no "murder of a human being" in the womb. An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" and while potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, it does not have as much value as a life in existence.

http://www.jewfaq.org/birth.htm

Where exactly did Jesus, as a Jew, overturn this Law and that regarding abortion?

http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Abortion

Exodus 21:22-25:
"22. If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25. Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

So if men are fighting and the baby is borne before its time and is dead or dies then there are penalties. How is abortion not the same as a baby being borne before it's time?

[Jaecp]

The born part, obviously

[Abigail]

The born part, obviously

Abortion causes the fruit of the womb to depart just as in the case of the fighting men in the Exodus verse. Also at issue is that the harm to the woman and her child in the Bible senario was not deliberate but that in abortion is.

[seer]

More to the point who are the ones attempting to subvert the secular laws of a secular state by demanding special treatment?

That is not an answer. And I'm not sure what you mean by secular law? Whose secular law? China's, North Korea's, Cuba's? Yes I'm sure you would like that. But my nation was founded on one great principle:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

And let me quote from President Washington's farewell speech:

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

[RumTumTugger]

More to the point who are the ones attempting to subvert the secular laws of a secular state by demanding special treatment?

Translation: Seer is right but I can't admit it or else it would prove his point about our hypocrisy in dealing with others we need to hide the fact so I can't answer truthfully better try to change the subject so I don't have to admit i"M a hypocrite.

[Tassman]

Abortion causes the fruit of the womb to depart just as in the case of the fighting men in the Exodus verse. Also at issue is that the harm to the woman and her child in the Bible senario was not deliberate but that in abortion is.

According to the bible, life begins at birth...when a baby draws its first breath. The bible defines life as "breath" in several significant passages, including the story of Adam's creation in Genesis 2:7, when God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Jewish law traditionally considers that person-hood begins at birth.

[Tassman]

That is not an answer. And I'm not sure what you mean by secular law? Whose secular law? China's, North Korea's, Cuba's?

The laws of the secular nation of the USA of course, what else? Are we talking about China, North Korea, or Cuba? Answer: No we're not. America is a secular nation. It does not officially, legally or by implication endorse any particular religion.

“Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.” ~Founding Father John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

Yes I'm sure you would like that. But my nation was founded on one great principle:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

Indeed! The key word being "equal". Remember that when you attempt to discriminate against homosexuals by denying them their full civil rights as citizens equal under the law.

And let me quote from President Washington's farewell speech:



http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.” ~Founding Father James Madison, 1819,

These are not the words of someone who believes that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as you try to claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founding Fathers believed strongly in the separation of church and state.

So, in case you’re in doubt: “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

[Cow Poke]

According to the bible, life begins at birth...when a baby draws its first breath. The bible defines life as "breath" in several significant passages, including the story of Adam's creation in Genesis 2:7, when God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Jewish law traditionally considers that person-hood begins at birth.

Not that it makes any difference to you, but....
Psalm 139:13-14 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

[seer]

The laws of the secular nation of the USA of course, what else? Are we talking about China, North Korea, or Cuba? Answer: No we're not. America is a secular nation. It does not officially, legally or by implication endorse any particular religion.

No Tass, we don't have a federal "State" church, though many of the first states did have tax supported state churches - and of course they were all Christian.

Indeed! The key word being "equal". Remember that when you attempt to discriminate against homosexuals by denying them their full civil rights as citizens equal under the law.

So you believe in God given rights Tass? The point being our founding document was religious in nature. Apart from God, how can all men be equal? Nature does not make all men equal - just the opposite

These are not the words of someone who believes that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as you try to claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founding Fathers believed strongly in the separation of church and state.

Yet these same founders made state laws based on Scripture - Madison and Jefferson instituted the death penalty for homosexual behavior in the Virgina code. Never mind laws against working on the sabbath,

So, in case you’re in doubt: “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

I didn't say it was a theocracy, but Adam's like Washington believed: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. 1798 speech to Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts

[Tassman]

No Tass, we don't have a federal "State" church, though many of the first states did have tax supported state churches - and of course they were all Christian.

The Constitution is the supreme law of the United States of America and according to it the US is a secular nation. It does not officially, legally or by implication endorse any religion. “Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery…” ~Founding Father John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

So you believe in God given rights Tass? The point being our founding document was religious in nature. Apart from God, how can all men be equal? Nature does not make all men equal - just the opposite

The key word in that document, which you've ignored, is “equal". Remember that when you attempt to discriminate against homosexuals by denying them their full civil rights as citizens equal under the law. The SCOTUS understood this in it's recent ruling on homosexual marriage.

Human rights are instinctive, inalienable, fundamental rights to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being. Humans have evolved as altruistic social beings imbued with innate instincts of group awareness and response to the social rules and needs of the group.

Yet these same founders made state laws based on Scripture - Madison and Jefferson instituted the death penalty for homosexual behavior in the Virgina code. Never mind laws against working on the sabbath,

In The Constitution, which is the document that matters, the Founding Fathers deliberately excluded any mention of God or scripture and believed overtly in the separation of church and state…as previously indicated.

I didn't say it was a theocracy, but Adam's like Washington believed: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. 1798 speech to Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts

Thus, in your mind, it was designed for Christians. Really!

And yet the Constitution specifically states in the 1st Amendment that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech…” In short, the Constitution allows the free expression of both religion and no-religion. And, again, the Treaty of Tripoli unambiguously states: “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

[seer]

The Constitution is the supreme law of the United States of America and according to it the US is a secular nation. It does not officially, legally or by implication endorse any religion. “Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery…” ~Founding Father John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

Right, so what is your point? The federal government did not institute a state religion. But may states did institute state churches. Including John Adam's own state of Massachusetts.

The key word in that document, which you've ignored, is “equal". Remember that when you attempt to discriminate against homosexuals by denying them their full civil rights as citizens equal under the law. The SCOTUS understood this in it's recent ruling on homosexual marriage.

But homosexuals always had the exactly same right as me - to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Human rights are instinctive, inalienable, fundamental rights to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being. Humans have evolved as altruistic social beings imbued with innate instincts of group awareness and response to the social rules and needs of the group.

There are no inalienable rights in your godless universe Tass, nor rationally can there be. The fact that we are social being does not tell us that we have inalienable rights - I mean do monkeys who are social beings have inalienable rights? Your argument is just silly.

[Jaecp]

But homosexuals always had the exactly same right as me - to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Then last weeks court decision gave you even more rights than you had before! Now you can marry a dude! Twice as much freedom!

[seer]

Then last weeks court decision gave you even more rights than you had before! Now you can marry a dude! Twice as much freedom!

But when can I marry three women?