Originally posted by Starlight
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Children are just commodities in the liberal culture.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostLet's be perfectly clear though - it's not merely the OT:
"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters" (Eph 6:5, Col 3:22, 1 Pet 2:18)
And when Jesus heals the slave of the Roman centurion, there's zero statement made along the lines of condemning slavery, and Jesus has nothing but praise for the slave-owner.
To extract an anti-slavery interpretation from the bible, you've got to read between the lines, and ask yourself what the logical outworking of the biblical teachings are. Because nowhere in the bible - not in the Old Testament, and not in the New Testament - is there any clear teaching that the political institution of slavery should be entirely abolished. The OT explicitly depicts slavery being instituted by God in the levitical law. Anyone who actually goes by the "clear face value" of biblical passages has to arrive at a pro-slavery view, and it's only by using quite a liberal interpretive hermeneutic that an anti-slavery overall reading flies. I see a clear parallel with the modern situation about gay rights and the bible: Those using a "clear face value" reading tend to be more anti-gay-rights, while those using more liberal hermeneutics tend to be more pro-gay-rights.
The Hebrews had a ready interpretive for their behaviour. God, through the prophets and teachers, always referred back to their time in Egypt as slaves and how God brought them out of the land and helped them to settle in Canaan. The whole story not only encompassed them but also their servants and visitors and anyone who wished to go out with them. So in that alone, a saga which was the core of their nation, they could understand that heavy slavery was no fun and further they could map all the different groups who went out with them under God's care to contemporary people in Israel. Servants (who might like freedom or may want nothing more than to stay with their master's household), sojourners people who wanted to join up (proselytes).
So, yes I have heard pro slavery arguments from the Bible but contrary to what you say, that the 'clear face value' is pro slavery it isn't. One of the most quoted pro-slavery passages in the Bible (Genesis 9) implies that slavery is a bad thing as are those who increase slavery. In the passage from Genesis 9 it is significant that Gen 9:21 is the very first mention of wine (something we know causes slavery - it is called being an alcoholic) in the Bible and Noah gets drunk. Ham seeing his father's nakedness does not act like a son and cover him but rather goes out and tells his brothers. What is not a son must be a servant. His brothers then have to do the job their brother should have done and go and cover their father. Knowing of his nakedness, not facing their father like sons but to spare his honor coming in backwards. What is not a son must be a servant. Who is the one who by his behaviour has worked for the increase of servants ie the servant of servants but Ham
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostThat's not what I said.
That wasn't what I was attempting to do.
So even though I've repeatedly stated that I'm not trying to evoke a particular negative image, you keep insisting that that's what I'm trying to do.
I'm not going to bother discussing this tangent anymore."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostLet's be perfectly clear though - it's not merely the OT:
"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters" (Eph 6:5, Col 3:22, 1 Pet 2:18)
And when Jesus heals the slave of the Roman centurion, there's zero statement made along the lines of condemning slavery, and Jesus has nothing but praise for the slave-owner.
To extract an anti-slavery interpretation from the bible, you've got to read between the lines, and ask yourself what the logical outworking of the biblical teachings are. Because nowhere in the bible - not in the Old Testament, and not in the New Testament - is there any clear teaching that the political institution of slavery should be entirely abolished. The OT explicitly depicts slavery being instituted by God in the levitical law. Anyone who actually goes by the "clear face value" of biblical passages has to arrive at a pro-slavery view, and it's only by using quite a liberal interpretive hermeneutic that an anti-slavery overall reading flies. I see a clear parallel with the modern situation about gay rights and the bible: Those using a "clear face value" reading tend to be more anti-gay-rights, while those using more liberal hermeneutics tend to be more pro-gay-rights."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostToo bad that the anti slavery side were some of the most religious people of the era. Keep saying stupid things dimbulb and exposing your knowledge of history is lacking.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostAs well as making sure they understood the bible in it's complete and true context as those of of us starlight is arguing with in this board do. not in a wooden literal modern day sense of the english language as starlight and his ilk are prone to do.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, what you and your ilk do is to rationalize the bibles early take on slavery in order to fit it to the more contemporary and adverse view of the immoral nature of it. The contemporary view of slavery is that it is an immoral practice period, regardless of times and conditions.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostUnless they're making your iPad. Or picking your lettuce. Or providing sex to tourists.Last edited by JimL; 06-18-2015, 05:09 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, I didn't say that there are not people who are willing to take advantage of the poor and treat them as slaves in so far as they can get away with it, but unlike in the ANE, the general consensus today is that slavery is immoral. I'm not a greedy conservative businessman who values personal wealth over human dignity, i'm for pay equity.
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