Transabled?

[Psychic Missile]

Er, how exactly is having all your organs in working order suffering? There are people in India (where I'm originally from) who are missing organs/appendages. How is it fair that the western world can be so selfish in claiming that the "FEELS" trump reason?

If someone had body integrity identity disorder, their brain is not in working order.

[JimL]

That wasn't my argument. My argument was that if you're going to argue that the feeling of the individual should trump societal norms you will have to base the argument on something other than the supposed fact that societal norms are constructed while individual norms are not, because the individual norms can and are clearly constructed to some degree. No one is born with fully formed proclivities.

Let me get this straight then. According to you, we are all, whether of male or female gender, born with a clean slate, so to speak, neither having innate psychological tendencies characteristic of their particular gender, but rather that their psychology is shaped or constructed by the culture. You don't think that little girls were born to be little girls with the psychological tendencies of little girls, but that they only aquire those tendencies as a result of training?

[JimL]

I never said that the infant was not born with certain inclinations, I said that these inclinations are not fully formed, which means that they can be nurtured towards certain directions. To take an example, an inclination towards being compassionate and empathetic for example can clearly be nurtured so it expresses itself in forms that are appropriate for either gender role

I didn't realize that compassion and empathy were gender specific characteristics. But what do you mean by "inclinations not fully formed"? Do you mean to say that infants begin with certain psychological tendencies but that we redirect them to go in the direction we as a culture prefer.

[Irate Canadian]

If someone had body integrity identity disorder, their brain is not in working order.

Okay.... So why not fix the brain?

[Cow Poke]

Okay.... So why not fix the brain?

That would make WAY too much sense. And it's way too easy to try something dumb, and say, "well, that didn't work, let's chop off body parts".

[Cow Poke]

This is probably a bad time to mention that I went through a short phase of occasionally wearing black lipstick, eyeliner, and nail polish to the clubs.

When would be a GOOD time?

[Rational Gaze]

They do not steal from you that which does not belong to you in the first place.

Indeed. They don't steal things that do not belong to us. They steal things that DO belong to us.

You are free to argue with the Inland Revenue service over the amount you owe

I don't owe the IRS anything, so there is no argument to be had. Incidentally, I don't owe the HMRC anything, either. You should still allow the government to steal your money though, because the government will get you and it's not really worth going to jail over. Maybe if enough people realise just how insane statism is and jump on the libertarian bandwagon we won't have to put up with having our money stolen by greedy parasites anymore.

but why would you think that citizenship and all that goes with it is free.

I don't. I think one should pay for the services they use. Forcing a crappy 'service' onto people and making them pay for it is extortion. Much like how the American mafia would force local businesses to 'pay' for 'protection' the government forces people to 'pay' for 'government services.' If the government lost its monopoly on the 'services' it claims to provide, and I voluntarily chose to use those government services, then I would pay them. As it happens, the government has a monopoly of various services and forces people to use them, and steals their money regardless. Taxation is the price we pay for not living in a civilised society.

Your birth certificate means “we own you and we reserve the right to milk you like a farmer milks a cow”.

My birth certificate is an indication of the arbitrarily designated state I happen to have been born in, versus other arbitrarily designated states separated by imaginary lines called 'borders.'

[Rational Gaze]

The immediate discussion was about personal autonomy; something babies don’t have – hence the description. How you manage to connect that to kidnapping and murder is anyone’s guess.

There are adults who lack personal autonomy.

[Rational Gaze]

if I recall FF is in England or one of her Colonies. you know the country we rebelled against here in the united States because they thought they owned us? is it any wonder he does not understand our right to voice displeasure of the government who is supposed to be OUR servant not the other way around

I'm pretty sure if we British had taxed the 13 colonies to the extent the US Federal government taxes its citizens today, y'all would have come over here and invaded England. Incidentally, every time I hear a story about a state or two introducing laws to minimise taxation it's always states like Texas (which used to be an independent republic) or southern states (which tried to rebel against the union.)

Then again, I live in the UK, which, despite being one of the more economically free nations in Europe still has insane levels of taxation, 'public services' and government spending. As bad as things are in the US, it ain't as bad as it is in Europe... at least, not yet anyway. We have a VAT of 17.5%, top tax rates of 50%, corporate tax rates of 35%, we're in debt by Ł1.7 trillion, splurging money on the NHS, benefits, and other hand outs, handing out money to EU member states and foreign nations, funding military operations overseas, and yet our government can't seem to figure out what it is doing wrong.

My solution for fixing the economy:

• Get the government out of banking, business, healthcare, etc.
• Fully privatise the markets.
• All voluntary interactions between consenting people be made legal.
• Anything that does violate human rights be made legal.
• Withdraw from all military conflicts overseas, and withdraw from international organisations such as the EU, IMF, World Bank, NATO, the UN, etc.
• Halt all foreign aid spending in toto.
• Make massive cuts to public spending.
• Make it easier for people to migrate legitimately, especially for work visas.

All of these things will vastly improve the socio-economic conditions of any country they are implemented in. Unfortunately, we live in a day and age of blind obedience to the state, and a heavy addiction to statist policies such as Keynesianism, socialism, and fascism. We do not have Austrian economics, capitalism, or libertarianism, and that is why our nations are going down the toilet socially and economically.

[Dante]

The irony, when you find this in the Bible:

1 Samuel 8:10-18
10 So Samuel spoke all the words of the Lord to the people who had asked of him a king. 11 He said, “This will be the procedure of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and place them for himself in his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots. 12 He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and some to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will also take your daughters for perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and your vineyards and your olive groves and give them to his servants. 15 He will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards and give to his officers and to his servants. 16 He will also take your male servants and your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys and use them for his work. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. 18 Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

Sounds a LOT like what you're describing.

[Rational Gaze]

The irony, when you find this in the Bible:

1 Samuel 8:10-18
10 So Samuel spoke all the words of the Lord to the people who had asked of him a king. 11 He said, “This will be the procedure of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and place them for himself in his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots. 12 He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and some to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will also take your daughters for perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and your vineyards and your olive groves and give them to his servants. 15 He will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards and give to his officers and to his servants. 16 He will also take your male servants and your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys and use them for his work. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. 18 Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

Sounds a LOT like what you're describing.

What makes me laugh is that statist Christians still think God approves of human systems of government even despite these passages. I had one fruitcake trying to argue that Israel's sin was in merely wanting a king "too early." Uh, no. Their sin was in wanting an earthly king when God was their heavenly King (and for us, as Christians, Christ, being God, is King.) When Paul says rulers are chosen by God, it does not mean that God approves of them or that He supports the systems of human government. I think it is God leaving us to our mess... that is, until the day of judgment, of course. Because that is when God will sort EVERYTHING out.

[JonathanL]

We have a VAT of 17.5%, top tax rates of 50%, corporate tax rates of 35% . . .

Here in finland general VAT is 24%, top tax rates 57.75%, but corporate tax rates are 20%, so that's better than yours atleast.

[firstfloor]

I think it is God leaving us to our mess... that is, until the day of judgment, of course. Because that is when God will sort EVERYTHING out.

The day of judgement is the day we human beings stop what we are doing to judge ourselves. It is the day we realise that we are God and god is stupid and suicidal.

[Rational Gaze]

The day of judgement is the day we human beings stop what we are doing to judge ourselves. It is the day we realise that we are God and god is stupid and suicidal.

If humans are god, then, yes, you're right. We humans are stupid, as evidenced by your comments here.

[Jedidiah]

If humans are god, then, yes, you're right. We humans are stupid, as evidenced by your comments here.

But not all humans are as stupid as ff.