My Inner Liberal..

[seer]

Or animal rights. A PETA spokesperson once said; "a rat is a pig, a pig is a dog and a dog is a boy." In other words all animals are in one sense equal. As a Christian I say that is nonsense, yet... When I was young my Mom took me to the Circus. Before the show started they allowed you to walk behind the big top and see all the animals in their cages, or like the elephants, chained down. I remember feeling so sorry for these great beasts. It is one thing to own a cat or dog - they are domesticated and generally loved. But if I were King I would make all zoos, circuses, horse racing, dog racing, etc.. illegal. I don't believe using animals for our personal entertainment is a moral good. I live in New England - I see bucks, eagles, owls, coyotes, bear, etc.. in the wild all the time - often up close. If you want to see a whale go out on the ocean. If you want to see a lion or elephant go to Africa or watch TV. Let these wonderful creatures live and die in freedom. Oh yeah - shoot all poachers on sight!

[KingsGambit]

I don't really see this particular thing as a clear left-right issue. A lot of conservatives are upset with circuses, and there's nothing liberal about wanting to treat animals humanely. It becomes liberal when you start insisting animals can't be eaten IMO.

[seer]

I don't really see this particular thing as a clear left-right issue. A lot of conservatives are upset with circuses, and there's nothing liberal about wanting to treat animals humanely. It becomes liberal when you start insisting animals can't be eaten IMO.

Well I'm not a vegetarian. But to be honest, it is mostly liberals (but not always) who are fighting this battle.

[Cow Poke]

Don't know if this is in relation to the news that Ringling Brothers will no longer have elephants in their Circus, but....

mixed emotions. As a kid, I remember looking forward to the circus, and it was the only time I got to see elephants. It wasn't til I got a little older that I began to realize how sad it was that these noble beasts were boxed up in trains, moved down the road, displayed to the public, boxed up on trains, rinse, repeat....

So, the animal rights people are claiming victory that elephants will no longer be in the circus, and proclaiming that lions and tigers are next.

Yeah, on this, I'm not going to fight so hard.

[KingsGambit]

Don't know if this is in relation to the news that Ringling Brothers will no longer have elephants in their Circus, but....

mixed emotions. As a kid, I remember looking forward to the circus, and it was the only time I got to see elephants. It wasn't til I got a little older that I began to realize how sad it was that these noble beasts were boxed up in trains, moved down the road, displayed to the public, boxed up on trains, rinse, repeat....

So, the animal rights people are claiming victory that elephants will no longer be in the circus, and proclaiming that lions and tigers are next.

Yeah, on this, I'm not going to fight so hard.

I still think zoos are a good place to see these animals, and a lot of liberals dislike them. I have to admit that I was on board when they tried to point out that the elephants in the Topeka zoo were being treated horribly (basically confined to a really small space, and the zoo has a reputation for animals dying). But that just means we need good zoos that can give them the space they need, not that we need to close them all.

[Cow Poke]

I still think zoos are a good place to see these animals, and a lot of liberals dislike them.

Yeah, I was gonna say that, but it'd have to be a zoo with the room and expertise to make it a "near natural surroundings" situation.

I have to admit that I was on board when they tried to point out that the elephants in the Topeka zoo were being treated horribly (basically confined to a really small space, and the zoo has a reputation for animals dying). But that just means we need good zoos that can give them the space they need, not that we need to close them all.

Yeah, that.

[seer]

I still think zoos are a good place to see these animals, and a lot of liberals dislike them. I have to admit that I was on board when they tried to point out that the elephants in the Topeka zoo were being treated horribly (basically confined to a really small space, and the zoo has a reputation for animals dying). But that just means we need good zoos that can give them the space they need, not that we need to close them all.

Yes, the Bronx Zoo does have a lot space for most of the animals, but still...

[mikewhitney]

I would think that if we don't see such animals up close that we won't have as much interest in them. So the wild animals might have fewer supporters if it weren't for some animals in the zoos.

One thing also is that this world shows man's corrupt nature and the mistreatment. This won't end until ... ummm ... the end. Some activists want to solve the problem of harmed animals without coming to the Christ as the beginning of the solution and the completion of the solution.

[seer]

I would think that if we don't see such animals up close that we won't have as much interest in them. So the wild animals might have fewer supporters if it weren't for some animals in the zoos.

Perhaps, but there is nothing like seeing animals in the wild.

One thing also is that this world shows man's corrupt nature and the mistreatment. This won't end until ... ummm ... the end. Some activists want to solve the problem of harmed animals without coming to the Christ as the beginning of the solution and the completion of the solution.

Right, and the tendency to see animals and humans as equals. As if animals have inherent rights.

[Bill the Cat]

Seer,

What do you think of this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/africa...ia-rhino-hunt/

[seer]

Seer,

What do you think of this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/africa...ia-rhino-hunt/

I hate trophy hunting. I hunted a lot in my younger days - but not only for sport but for food. Of course the money this guy paid for the permit will do some good.

[Adrift]

Would you be okay with drive through, non-hunting-type animal safaris that feature exotic animals in areas that replicate their home turf to some degree?

While I think maybe it's probably for the best that elephants are no longer going to be in some of the larger circuses, like CP, I can't help but be a little sad about seeing them go. I haven't been to a circus in ages, but I always wanted to have the opportunity to take my children or my brother's children to the circus and to have them experience it the way I did, the way my dad did, and the way his dad did. There's something so historical and adventurous about the ol big tent, and it's animals. And though I think poaching is terrible, there's something sort of nostalgic and heroic about the big game wildlife safaris from the 19th and early 20th century. According to my dad, I had a wealthy uncle who used to go on those sorts of safaris back in the early half of the 20th century, and there's something a bit romantic and exciting about the David Livingstone, Allan Quatermain, Theodore Roosevelt type of African adventure that, for better or worse, won't be experienced in quite the same way ever again.

[Bill the Cat]

I hate trophy hunting. I hunted a lot in my younger days - but not only for sport but for food. Of course the money this guy paid for the permit will do some good.

It was more about hunting an older bull who was not contributing to the gene pool any longer, but was a danger to those that were.

[Cow Poke]

What about lottery hunting?

When some areas are overrun with deer, for example, a lottery is held where a certain number of hunters "win" the opportunity to go into the area (Fort Hood, for example) and cull some deer to control the population.

Personally, it reminds me (although it's a necessary function) of the deer hunter who goes out and hangs a deer feeder from a tree that automatically dispenses food at particular times of the day, luring them into a false sense of security so he can come, park his lazy butt, and shoot Bambi without having to work very hard.

[seer]

What about lottery hunting?

When some areas are overrun with deer, for example, a lottery is held where a certain number of hunters "win" the opportunity to go into the area (Fort Hood, for example) and cull some deer to control the population.

Personally, it reminds me (although it's a necessary function) of the deer hunter who goes out and hangs a deer feeder from a tree that automatically dispenses food at particular times of the day, luring them into a false sense of security so he can come, park his lazy butt, and shoot Bambi without having to work very hard.

We have a lot of that up here - the deer population is out of control. But the meat is given to the local soup kitchens. I have no problem with killing animals for food.