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TV reporter catches lobbyists writing bills in hotel rooms...

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  • TV reporter catches lobbyists writing bills in hotel rooms...

    ...and the only response is for the lobbyists to send off duty officers to arrange for the reporters to get kicked out of their room.

    The sooner people recognize that American democracy is mostly a facade, the better.

    http://www.11alive.com/story/news/lo...sort/27695105/
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    Nitpick: republic, not democracy.

    While I agree the authorship should be public, a reps job is to get legislation he/she supports passed, not necessarily to actually write the thing. READ it, yes; write it, not as important.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      Nitpick: republic, not democracy.
      Just finished writing a rant on this very topic. I for one do not consider it nit picking.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Just finished writing a rant on this very topic. I for one do not consider it nit picking.
        Technically, it's really a democratic Republic, but yes, it is indeed a republic not a democracy.

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          The sooner people recognize that American democracy is mostly a facade, the better.
          What do you propose they do about it?

          I personally think the American people should demand a constitutional amendment to allow campaign finance reforms and anti-corruption laws to be enacted by the federal government, and demand laws limiting lobbyist's access to politicians.

          Also, obviously the IRS needs to be investigating ALEC because they are claiming to be a 'charity' and yet clearly engaging in politics. Of course, after the "scandal" about the IRS investigating the Tea Party, that's not going to happen, which was half the point of manufacturing that scandal in the first place. And the Republicans mercilessly cutting back the IRS's budget to investigate anything is likewise going to prevent such an investigation, again as intended.
          Last edited by Starlight; 05-24-2015, 03:53 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Nitpick: republic, not democracy.

            While I agree the authorship should be public, a reps job is to get legislation he/she supports passed, not necessarily to actually write the thing. READ it, yes; write it, not as important.
            I know this of course. But the general public does see it as a democracy, and the general public's attention is who I have in mind.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              What do you propose they do about it?

              I personally think the American people should demand a constitutional amendment to allow campaign finance reforms and anti-corruption laws to be enacted by the federal government, and demand laws limiting lobbyist's access to politicians.
              These sound good in the abstract but I have some philosophical concerns about how they would actually be written. I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that one should not be prohibited from donating as they wish, and such limitations seem to result in people making blatant ends around by donating to cover groups... which seems counterproductive to transparency. I'm all for the public revelation of all donations above a certain threshold, of course.

              I'm not sure where I stand on limiting lobbyist access as well. One such law was passed on a local level once and the exact wording (which was quickly corrected) actually implied that a legislator could not discuss legislation with anybody, even constituents. I don't have any better solutions though.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I'm not sure where I stand on limiting lobbyist access as well. One such law was passed on a local level once and the exact wording (which was quickly corrected) actually implied that a legislator could not discuss legislation with anybody, even constituents. I don't have any better solutions though.
                You could demand that the draft of most laws be posted online for at least a couple weeks before they can be passed. That's plenty of time for the many legal nerds with time on their hands to sift through each jot and tittle and rouse their allied media if necessary.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  You could demand that the draft of most laws be posted online for at least a couple weeks before they can be passed. That's plenty of time for the many legal nerds with time on their hands to sift through each jot and tittle and rouse their allied media if necessary.
                  That's a welcome alternative to the ridiculousness involving the US's recent free trade agreement where the text was not allowed to be viewed by non-legislators or even publicly discussed by those who were privy to it. The downside is it renders passing emergency legislation impossible; but this may not actually be a downside, to be honest. Emergency legislation seems like the type of thing that would be more necessary on a very local level.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    That's a welcome alternative to the ridiculousness involving the US's recent free trade agreement where the text was not allowed to be viewed by non-legislators or even publicly discussed by those who were privy to it.
                    I will do the necessary embedding of the video:



                    emergency legislation
                    That's virtually an oxymoron.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      That's virtually an oxymoron.
                      Not if it involves the closing of loopholes. It's not the most drastic of examples, but there was one city near me that started to gain major news attention when it became revealed that the city had no law against public nudity. I wouldn't call this an emergency but it is the type of thing a city would want to rectify sooner than later. I think a better example would be the law I mentioned earlier that prohibited legislators from discussing their work with anybody, even the media or constituents... or the recent case in Ireland where a judge ruled that the country's law banning ecstasy was unconstitutional, de facto legalizing it.

                      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ntil-thursday/
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Not if it involves the closing of loopholes... I think a better example would be the law I mentioned earlier that prohibited legislators from discussing their work with anybody, even the media or constituents
                        Well, that's part of the point of putting the drafts online: you'll actually get people scrutinising every word before it gets published.
                        Last edited by Paprika; 05-24-2015, 02:07 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                          Well, that's part of the point of publishing draft laws online: you'll actually get people scrutinising every word before it gets published.
                          True, but that still wouldn't account for judicially-created situations.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I know this of course. But the general public does see it as a democracy, and the general public's attention is who I have in mind.
                            I'm not seeing how perpetuating a myth somehow improves matters here.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              True, but that still wouldn't account for judicially-created situations.
                              Fair enough.

                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              I'm not seeing how perpetuating a myth somehow improves matters here.
                              It's not merely the delusion that things now are anywhere like the ideal, the idea that democracy was and did anything special was always a fantasy.

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