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Ireland recovering from Theocracy.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    It'll come, it's inevitable. But who'd have thought that a (once) profoundly Catholic country like Ireland, with its centuries of anti-homosexual rhetoric, would set such an enlightened example.
    AKA 'Become enlightened and agree with me!'

    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Well the current Pope seems to be trying to encourage the higher-ups in the church to pay attention to what lay Catholics actually believe. He keeps promoting various surveys of popular opinions to try to rub the various bishop's noses in the facts about what the people in their churches actually believe.

      Reading between the lines, the Pope seems to think that a lot of the archbishops in the church are in a religious bubble that is quite insulated from popular opinion among lay Catholics, and he seems to be hoping that if he can make the more conservative archbishops actually realize what the average Catholic-in-the-pew (or even Catholic-who-has-left-the-pew) believes, he might be able to steer the hierarchy in the direction of some populist reforms. It seems clear that he wants to steer the church towards a less strict / more liberal view on contraception, abortion, and gay rights.

      Because when a nation that is 84% Catholic votes 62% against the explicit teachings of the Catholic church, there is obviously an issue.
      I say this as a Catholic who has pretty good understanding of Catholic theology and of the approach of the Second Vatican Council: you have decent observations but bad interpretations. To force a confrontation with the terrible catechesis so many Catholics have received (and I think conservative bishops know better than ANYONE just how few Catholics actually understand and live out the church's teachings on various issues) is not to push for a concession to it.

      The same man who said "who am I to judge" also referred to same-sex marriage as an "anthropological regression". If you don't see the whole picture r.e. Pope Francis, you're gonna be missing out on a lot.
      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        It'll come, it's inevitable.
        Yeah, I agree. Abbott seems the only thing blocking it, and when his own party ousts him in a year or so, same-sex marriage will probably be passed pretty quickly.

        In some ways I'm quite happy with the current situation, because I think the longer Australia continues banning same-sex marriage when so much of the rest of the Western world has it, the quicker religious groups within Australia will lose members. I think prolonging the time that religious figures are saying dumb anti-gay stuff in the national media, will serve to hasten the long-term demise of religion especially in the younger generation.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Yeah, I agree. Abbott seems the only thing blocking it, and when his own party ousts him in a year or so, same-sex marriage will probably be passed pretty quickly.

          In some ways I'm quite happy with the current situation, because I think the longer Australia continues banning same-sex marriage when so much of the rest of the Western world has it, the quicker religious groups within Australia will lose members. I think prolonging the time that religious figures are saying dumb anti-gay stuff in the national media, will serve to hasten the long-term demise of religion especially in the younger generation.
          No need to wait, it’s already happening in Australia. Apart from small pockets of enthusiastic Pentecostals, the churches are virtually empty on Sundays.

          “Places of worship are closing for no other reason than that the people who live around them no longer attend. It’s where the closures are happening that is new—in predominantly Anglo-Saxon middle-class suburbs that were once the heartland of mainstream denominations.”

          https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/201...burban-church/

          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          Enlightened? More like perverted.
          No, enlightened, i.e. tolerant and accepting as opposed to bigoted and judgemental.

          Wow... did you think that up all by yourself?
          I'm a natural born wit. The point is the absurdity of pining for a right-wing media outlet when you have Fox.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            AKA 'Become enlightened and agree with me!'

            No. Your agreement is not needed because what changes is the zeitgeist. You might not agree with it at any particular moment but it will nevertheless drag you along behind it at some, acceptable to conservatives, distance. The old nutter fogies drop off the end of the tail to die; their death helping to drive the whole thing forwards like releasing the brakes on your moped …. to a position that will allow us to tackle the next thorny problem.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              No. Your agreement is not needed because what changes is the zeitgeist. You might not agree with it at any particular moment but it will nevertheless drag you along behind it at some, acceptable to conservatives, distance. The old nutter fogies drop off the end of the tail to die; their death helping to drive the whole thing forwards like releasing the brakes on your moped …. to a position that will allow us to tackle the next thorny problem.
              Another mindless rant, brought to you buy FF. Anyway, I'll try to answer your rambling answer of a post. Ever hear of the 'cult of progress'? You should look it up sometime, some interesting reading on the topic. The problem with your whole cult though is... "What are we progressing towards?" Something I doubt you can answer and if history has anything to say about it; we're not going to like your dreams of utopia one tiny bit because your dreams often end up being a nightmare. Another odd observation I notice about your post is that you forget that brakes are just as important to the safe operation of a vehicle as the gas peddle is. Trying to ditch your brakes and pretending you don't need them is quite revealing because it reveals your blind devotion towards the cult of progress without ever putting any thought into the latest and greatest ideas. Did you ever think that a society needs both its brakes and its gas peddle, to really work efficiently? Yet again, you seem to leap forward into battle, but never seem to think much through your 'arguments'.
              Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 05-25-2015, 08:24 AM.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                Iran is "right wing" in the same way that Obama is a "right-leaning moderate".
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's going to be had for dinner.
                  And the follow-up to that:

                  Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    You're forgetting, Sam will mindlessly defend anybody who is a liberal and will mindlessly attack anybody who is a conservative. Since Starlight is a liberal, Sam will mindless defend him. Nothing else matters.
                    Considering that Sam has basically outed himself as a nominal Christian who thinks the Bible got it wrong when it explicitly condemns homosexuality, his eagerness to sell his soul to defend the liberal agenda is hardly surprising.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      "Faux News," Comrade Tassman? I believe you're talking about MSNBC.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DLAbaoaqu View Post
                        "Faux News," Comrade Tassman? I believe you're talking about MSNBC.
                        Same thing, different sides:

                        PJ_14.10.21_mediaPolarization-08.jpg
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          Another mindless rant, brought to you buy FF. Anyway, I'll try to answer your rambling answer of a post. Ever hear of the 'cult of progress'? You should look it up sometime, some interesting reading on the topic. The problem with your whole cult though is... "What are we progressing towards?" Something I doubt you can answer and if history has anything to say about it; we're not going to like your dreams of utopia one tiny bit because your dreams often end up being a nightmare. Another odd observation I notice about your post is that you forget that brakes are just as important to the safe operation of a vehicle as the gas peddle is. Trying to ditch your brakes and pretending you don't need them is quite revealing because it reveals your blind devotion towards the cult of progress without ever putting any thought into the latest and greatest ideas. Did you ever think that a society needs both its brakes and its gas peddle, to really work efficiently? Yet again, you seem to leap forward into battle, but never seem to think much through your 'arguments'.
                          Some good points there, LPOT. The question of where we are headed is interesting but I do not think we should be fearful because the zeitgeist is ultimately an expression of human nature and I think we are entitled to trust ourselves to do the right thing, collectively.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            Some good points there, LPOT. The question of where we are headed is interesting but I do not think we should be fearful because the zeitgeist is ultimately an expression of human nature and I think we are entitled to trust ourselves to do the right thing, collectively.
                            Hummm, you mean like the Russians 'trusted' the communist revolution to bring about change from the oppressive ways of the czars and ended up being worse than the czars ever were? Progress, without vision, doesn't seem to work out very well for anybody. While your blind faith is both amusing and scary, one of the major problems of your cult of progress is that it ignores the bad of human nature and only pretends it is the good that exist. There's plenty of examples, just is the 20th century alone, of a whole lot of very bad and horrible things happening in the name of progress to prove that progress, without any sort of real goal, doesn't seem to ever work out. Your cult of progress, doesn't seem to understand even the basics of human nature.
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 05-25-2015, 05:19 PM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Hummm, you mean like the Russians 'trusted' the communist revolution to bring about change from the oppressive ways of the czars and ended up being worse than the czars ever were? Progress, without vision, doesn't seem to work out very well for anybody.
                              A man who is not constrained from within must be constrained from without.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                A man who is not constrained from within must be constrained from without.
                                Always great to remember. I think GK Chesterton nails it when he says:

                                “Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision.”

                                The bit problem I've noticed with our cult of progress is the total lack of vision. We Christians have a vision, to try to make ourselves and the world more like Christ would like it to be. Sometimes this might mean we need to change such as getting rid of slavery or dealing with racism. Sometimes we need to stick to our guns such as attempts wipe out the family unit. Something our friends seem to fail to understand. Progress, without any sort of vision to go with it, seems to end in failure.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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