Originally posted by Adrift
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Is there such a thing as a fair advantage?
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"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm kinda curious what the "pre-existing gym" would have existed for prior to being utilized for basketball. Every indoor basketball facility I have ever seen had a special hardwood floor with the basketball court layout inlaid. (Maybe I'm just spoiled )
Here's a couple wiki's on this:
The same wiki link also mentions that "Naismith long regarded his game as a curiosity and preferred gymnastics and wrestling as better forms of physical education." So I'm guessing the gyms were typically used for those sports (no mention of dodgeball though ).
And from the wiki on Basketball:
Like I said, I'm not into sports at all, but I recently listened to a podcast on the invention of the shot clock which changed the sport dramatically in the mid-50s. Before the invention of the shot clock, a team could hold the ball as long as they wanted, so teams would acquire a few points and then hold onto the ball until the time ran out. It made games slow and boring, and NBC was actually considering dropping the NBA since people were losing interest in it. With the invention of the 24 second shot clock, teams were forced to get rid of the ball and make points as quickly as possible, and added tension to the game that wasn't present before then. Pretty neat stuff.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't know anything about 19th century gyms. Maybe they used them for wrestling, and dodgeball.
Here's a couple wiki's on this:
The same wiki link also mentions that "Naismith long regarded his game as a curiosity and preferred gymnastics and wrestling as better forms of physical education." So I'm guessing the gyms were typically used for those sports (no mention of dodgeball though ).
And from the wiki on Basketball:
Like I said, I'm not into sports at all, but I recently listened to a podcast on the invention of the shot clock which changed the sport dramatically in the mid-50s. Before the invention of the shot clock, a team could hold the ball as long as they wanted, so teams would acquire a few points and then hold onto the ball until the time ran out. It made games slow and boring, and NBC was actually considering dropping the NBA since people were losing interest in it. With the invention of the 24 second shot clock, teams were forced to get rid of the ball and make points as quickly as possible, and added tension to the game that wasn't present before then. Pretty neat stuff.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Or a gif of the year, come to think of it:
• Edited by a Moderator •
Last edited by QuantaFille; 05-12-2015, 04:54 PM.
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I have been made aware of some studies that seem to clash with the argument that I'd tentatively advanced earlier (about poverty and race in sports). The other points that I'd discussed appear to still stand, and in fact the studies seem to actually strengthen some of those other points, but consequently, I will retract that particular argument.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI thought it was because he was too short.
Originally posted by Cow PokeYeah, drive on over to your local high school and ask to speak to the head coach of the football team. Then go ahead and educate him, and lemme know how that worked for ya.
Basketball teams have these things called "uniforms". And you can't just wear any old shoes on the court.
Not to mention, basketball is overall perceived as safer than football--catastrophic injuries can occur in basketball, but football seems to produce more such injuries like concussions, torn ACLs, etc, and consequently less money is spent taking care of injuries.
Nevertheless, as I said above, I'm retracting this argument due to conflicting evidence that I've come across, so I see no need to pursue it further.
Originally posted by Zymologist View PostHow do you square that with the fact that apparently a majority of NFL players are black? (according to point 5 of this list)
(That said, those studies focus primarily on the athletes who made it to professional sports leagues, but I haven't found anything about sports participation at lower levels. It may be a possibility that the dynamic from the argument holds true up to a threshold point, after which having wealth becomes more significant and makes or breaks whether athletes are able to qualify for the professional leagues. More investigation is needed.)
But ultimately, this doesn't really support Sparko either. So it appears that everyone involved in this discussion was wrong to an extent.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostI have been made aware of some studies that seem to clash with the argument that I'd tentatively advanced earlier
(about poverty and race in sports). The other points that I'd discussed appear to still stand,
and in fact the studies seem to actually strengthen some of those other points, but consequently, I will retract that particular argument.
Er...that was addressed in a later part of the post that you quoted, but just to be clear...you DO realize that this is a hypothetical example in response to Sparko's earlier hypothetical example, right? The reasoning applies to real-life cases of inequality, but you're aware that there's no specific real-life athlete in mind here, yes? Because your other responses such asThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDon't ya hate it when that happens?
I'm still trying to figure out which of your arguments you're still supporting and which ones you're abandoning.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostIt'd be nice if, when someone like lilpixieofterror inevitably attacks my character and integrity in the future, you would correct her and point to this as proof that I will, in fact, retract an argument and admit to error if there is actually good evidence that seems to conflict with it.
I am retracting the argument that the high representation of African-Americans in sports is due to poor people (who tend to be black) being significantly more driven to succeed because they view sports as basically their only option for social mobility. At least at the professional level, that appears to not be the case--most of the black athletes who make it to the pros simply aren't particularly poor.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou're on your own! She SCARES me!
Yeah, as some of us have been saying all along, they make it the pros and are hired because they play better. Not because of some sociomumbojumbo.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostSo you won't correct/rebuke your spiritual brethren when they're clearly in the wrong?
But that also conflicts with Sparko's assumption that many of those athletes tend to be poor but succeed primarily because of some vague racial gene.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostIt'd be nice if, when someone like lilpixieofterror inevitably attacks my character and integrity in the future, you would correct her and point to this as proof that I will, in fact, retract an argument and admit to error if there is actually good evidence that seems to conflict with it.
I am retracting the argument that the high representation of African-Americans in sports is due to poor people (who tend to be black) being significantly more driven to succeed because they view sports as basically their only option for social mobility. At least at the professional level, that appears to not be the case--most of the black athletes who make it to the pros simply aren't particularly poor."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou're on your own! She SCARES me!
Unless you happy to be my biological brother or a really annoying game, you have nothing to fear.
Yeah, as some of us have been saying all along, they make it the pros and are hired because they play better. Not because of some sociomumbojumbo."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm kinda curious what the "pre-existing gym" would have existed for prior to being utilized for basketball. Every indoor basketball facility I have ever seen had a special hardwood floor with the basketball court layout inlaid. (Maybe I'm just spoiled )"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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