Vanderbilt University sociologist says white privilege still exist and riots prove it

[fm93]

Newsflash: The world is not fair.

And here I always thought this fact was supposed to inspire us to try and make it more fair. Silly me.

[Teallaura]

And here I always thought this fact was supposed to inspire us to try and make it more fair. Silly me.

Then you (personal here; general hereafter) might wanna rethink this whole tack. Telling people they are necessarily wrong NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO is a great way to discourage them from engaging at all. Even if you have a valid point (and I don't think this WP nonsense is) you are only gonna alienate the very people you need to get on board.

IF the thing is true you are gonna have to prove it with much better, less subjective, measures. Shoddy methodology (improper sampling), unreasonably subjective terminology (suspicious) and questionable internal validity (bad math) don't come close - those are studies done to reassure the converts. The insistence that we're all wrong on top of it only makes us - and anyone else who doesn't share your view - more convinced it's a ruse and not worthy of consideration. Kinda the opposite effect you're hoping for if you believe this stuff and want to change it.

[fm93]

Telling people they are necessarily wrong NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO is a great way to discourage them from engaging at all.

I agree, but where did I tell anyone that?

Even if you have a valid point (and I don't think this WP nonsense is) you are only gonna alienate the very people you need to get on board.

IF the thing is true you are gonna have to prove it with much better, less subjective, measures. Shoddy methodology (improper sampling), unreasonably subjective terminology (suspicious) and questionable internal validity (bad math) don't come close - those are studies done to reassure the converts. The insistence that we're all wrong on top of it only makes us - and anyone else who doesn't share your view - more convinced it's a ruse and not worthy of consideration. Kinda the opposite effect you're hoping for if you believe this stuff and want to change it.

There is dispute that the "default" views and standards in America tend to be Eurocentric? That the common, generic culture tends to primarily have white people in mind first and foremost?

[MaxVel]

I agree, but where did I tell anyone that?


There is dispute that the "default" views and standards in America tend to be Eurocentric? That the common, generic culture tends to primarily have white people in mind first and foremost?

That would make sense, surely, since something like 77% of Americans are white. Surely they have the right to value and practice their own culture, and as the overwhelming majority, assume it as the 'default'?

[fm93]

That would make sense, surely, since something like 77% of Americans are white. Surely they have the right to value and practice their own culture, and as the overwhelming majority, assume it as the 'default'?

They certainly have the right to do so. But that leads to the next point--because they are in the default, they don't have to ever seriously think about other cultures. Some of them do, and I appreciate that, but it's possible for most white Americans to only pay attention to white American culture and never think about anything else. The same can't be said for non-white Americans. We have to always be in the know for the culture of our ethnic heritage AND the culture of our country. As such, white Americans have the power to exclude or filter out other cultures from the mainstream, and they don't have to worry about their own culture being excluded. That itself is a major expression of privilege. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe you said you live in Thailand, so you should be familiar with the sort of phenomenon that I'm talking about, but with the races and cultures reversed.

[MaxVel]

They certainly have the right to do so. But that leads to the next point--because they are in the default, they don't have to ever seriously think about other cultures. Some of them do, and I appreciate that, but it's possible for most white Americans to only pay attention to white American culture and never think about anything else. The same can't be said for non-white Americans. We have to always be in the know for the culture of our ethnic heritage AND the culture of our country. As such, white Americans have the power to exclude or filter out other cultures from the mainstream, and they don't have to worry about their own culture being excluded. That itself is a major expression of privilege. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe you said you live in Thailand, so you should be familiar with the sort of phenomenon that I'm talking about, but with the races and cultures reversed.

Yep. The dominant culture gets to do things their way. That's kind of how the world works. Not sure why that's a bad thing in and of itself.

I moved from my 'dominant culture' to one where I am doubly in a cultural minority. Sometimes that works for me, sometimes against me. I'm not really seeing why someone born into a dominant culture should feel bad about that, or be morally obliged to think much about other cultures if they don't come across them much.

[Teallaura]

I agree, but where did I tell anyone that?

You personally didn't - but don't you understand what people are reacting negatively to? 'White privilege' - especially the way it has been defined here and most especially the way Joan uses it - is nothing other than telling white people they are always in the wrong.

It's self defeating and stupid, if you ask me.

There is dispute that the "default" views and standards in America tend to be Eurocentric? That the common, generic culture tends to primarily have white people in mind first and foremost?

I'd dispute both of those things - where have you been the last 30 years? But they aren't what I was talking about - Joan's studies had two of the three (bad methodology and lacking internal validity) and half the thread has been about what constitutes 'suspicious' such that a legitimate second look may be taken.

[fm93]

Yep. The dominant culture gets to do things their way. That's kind of how the world works. Not sure why that's a bad thing in and of itself.

It can be problematic if said culture promised to represent a country of equality and inclusion, only to exclude other cultures.

I moved from my 'dominant culture' to one where I am doubly in a cultural minority. Sometimes that works for me, sometimes against me. I'm not really seeing why someone born into a dominant culture should feel bad about that

I'm not saying someone should feel bad about that.

or be morally obliged to think much about other cultures if they don't come across them much.

For one thing, not thinking about other cultures opens the possibility of hurting/disadvantaging people from those cultures. For another thing, it does white Americans themselves a disservice if they only focus on their own culture--it's akin to self-censorship, robbing themselves of knowledge and experiences.