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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    Someone didn't read the source article ...
    Well yes I did. Show me where I misquoted anything.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      You have proof of that?
      Since the philosophers interviewed never proposed "pull[ing] down and destroy[ing]" the family unit, it seems pretty clear. If anything, the philosophers were proposing strengthening the family unit by encouraging systems or policies that focus on the highest developmental benefit of families. Nowhere were parents considered evil for providing their kids advantages, certainly not such advantages as reading at bedtime.
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Well yes I did. Show me where I misquoted anything.
        Your analysis didn't match the content of the article, unless you want to throw a blanket "evil liberal" on any philosopher (including Plato & Aristotle) who seeks to examine the value and function of family as it relates to development.

        Were the philosophers here proposing that parents not give their children the advantage of reading at bedtime?
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Since the philosophers interviewed never proposed "pull[ing] down and destroy[ing]" the family unit, it seems pretty clear. If anything, the philosophers were proposing strengthening the family unit by encouraging systems or policies that focus on the highest developmental benefit of families. Nowhere were parents considered evil for providing their kids advantages, certainly not such advantages as reading at bedtime.
          So, you GUESS that he didn't read it based on your assumptions of how Seer would analyze the article (or the summary of it).
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            Since the philosophers interviewed never proposed "pull[ing] down and destroy[ing]" the family unit, it seems pretty clear. If anything, the philosophers were proposing strengthening the family unit by encouraging systems or policies that focus on the highest developmental benefit of families. Nowhere were parents considered evil for providing their kids advantages, certainly not such advantages as reading at bedtime.
            No evil was my take on it, and it is.

            According to Swift, from a purely instrumental position the answer is straightforward.

            One way philosophers might think about solving the social justice problem would be by simply abolishing the family. If the family is this source of unfairness in society then it looks plausible to think that if we abolished the family there would be a more level playing field.’

            ‘What we realised we needed was a way of thinking about what it was we wanted to allow parents to do for their children, and what it was that we didn’t need to allow parents to do for their children, if allowing those activities would create unfairnesses for other people’s children’.
            What they allow?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Your analysis didn't match the content of the article, unless you want to throw a blanket "evil liberal" on any philosopher (including Plato & Aristotle) who seeks to examine the value and function of family as it relates to development.

              Were the philosophers here proposing that parents not give their children the advantage of reading at bedtime?
              Plato pulled few punches in The Republic when he called for the abolition of the family and for the children of the elite to be given over to the state. Aristotle didn’t agree, citing the since oft-used argument of the neglect of things held in common. Swift echoes the Aristotelian line. The break-up of the family is plausible maybe, he thinks, but even to the most hard-hearted there’s something off-key about it.
              Yes that is evil. Swift thinks it is plausible to beak up the family in the name of fairness.
              Last edited by seer; 05-05-2015, 02:33 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                So, you GUESS that he didn't read it based on your assumptions of how Seer would analyze the article (or the summary of it).
                No, his subsequent posts are fairly indicative. He can surely answer how these "evil liberals" are going to "pull down and destroy loving families" by such tyrannical means as hypothetically eliminating "elite [private] schooling".
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  And if they were smarter still they would realise that there exists inequalities that are insurmountable (unless you want to mentally and physically retard the hell out of everyone) and resolve to deal with the inequalities and class systems that they engender (together with other factors, of course).
                  Of course they will be differences in intellect between kids, but they are trying to drag those down from families when they are smarter because the kids without families are suffering and doing worse. All they really need to do is promote families properly. Make sure that kids don't suffer from things like parental alienation which one of the causes of this.
                  “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                    That is what my reaction was too.

                    I guess feeding your children and giving them love is an unfair advantage, so we should turn them all out on the streets, dressed in rags and let them fend for themselves.

                    Who said you had to be "fair" in the first place? I think parents should give their kids any advantage they can. That's what parents do.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      No evil was my take on it, and it is.



                      What they allow?
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Yes that is evil.

                      Yeah, clearly didn't read the article.

                      Source: Is having a loving family an unfair advantage?. Joe Gelonesi. 2015.05.01



                      This devilish twist of evidence surely leads to a further conclusion—that perhaps in the interests of levelling the playing field, bedtime stories should also be restricted. In Swift’s mind this is where the evaluation of familial relationship goods goes up a notch.

                      ‘You have to allow parents to engage in bedtime stories activities, in fact we encourage them because those are the kinds of interactions between parents and children that do indeed foster and produce these [desired] familial relationship goods.’


                      Swift makes it clear that although both elite schooling and bedtime stories might both skew the family game, restricting the former would not interfere with the creation of the special loving bond that families give rise to. Taking the books away is another story.


                      ‘We could prevent elite private schooling without any real hit to healthy family relationships, whereas if we say that you can’t read bedtime stories to your kids because it’s not fair that some kids get them and others don’t, then that would be too big a hit at the core of family life.’


                      So should parents snuggling up for one last story before lights out be even a little concerned about the advantage they might be conferring?


                      ‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.


                      In the end Swift agrees that all activities will cause some sort of imbalance—from joining faith communities to playing Saturday cricket—and it’s for this reason that a theory of familial goods needs to be established if the family is to be defended against cries of unfairness.


                      ‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Although the headline "Philosophers expound on concepts from Plato's "Republic", elicit wingnut reaction" really does get to the heart of a lot of problems ...
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        No, his subsequent posts are fairly indicative. He can surely answer how these "evil liberals" are going to "pull down and destroy loving families" by such tyrannical means as hypothetically eliminating "elite [private] schooling".

                        Sure Sam:

                        What we realised we needed was a way of thinking about what it was we wanted to allow parents to do for their children, and what it was that we didn’t need to allow parents to do for their children, if allowing those activities would create unfairnesses for other people’s children’.
                        What does it mean to allow or not allow parents....
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Sure Sam:


                          What does it mean to allow or not allow parents....
                          He's talking about how his philosophical theory is set up. Like in "The Republic". It's establishing a philosophical framework. Read and understand the whole article first, freak out second.
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            No, his subsequent posts are fairly indicative.
                            Again, you GUESS based on your evaluation of his analysis. But you have no proof that he didn't read the article outside of your opinion.

                            He can surely answer how these "evil liberals" are going to "pull down and destroy loving families" by such tyrannical means as hypothetically eliminating "elite [private] schooling".
                            An analysis again. Bot no proof that Seer "didn't read the source article". You don't like his conclusion, that's one thing. But declaring that he "didn't read the source article" is another.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            - Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              Again, you GUESS based on your evaluation of his analysis. But you have no proof that he didn't read the article outside of your opinion.

                              An analysis again. Bot no proof that Seer "didn't read the source article". You don't like his conclusion, that's one thing. But declaring that he "didn't read the source article" is another.
                              Having read the article and so neatly skipped over all the parts that refute his accusation of the philosophers trying to destroy the family unit and trying to totally control what are acceptable familial activities would be far worse than having simply not read the article.

                              If seer would rather that I say he clearly didn't understand the plain English that made up the content of the article, we can go with that. The problem — that he and others here are shrieking absurdities that are at odds with the source article's content — remains.
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I don't have any children, so my non-existent children are at a clear disadvantage to those children that exist. This is not fair! I think all existing children should be euthanized (humanely and without harm to any animals of course) to make a fair and level playing ground for non-existent children like mine.

                                Comment

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