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  • #61
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Oh, sure. But why are they still keeping it a secret? Because once it is admitted it would spur an arms race.
    Again, this is just silly. Everyone had known from the 80s that they have nukes. The reason there hasn't been an arms race it because their Arab neighbors didn't believe that Israel would attack them, and they haven't. Saudi Arabia for instance is much more worried about Iran, that is why the Saudis are looking to buy nukes now.


    Assad, Saddam, and the Iranian leadership are hardly suicidal, as above. Though they would prefer Israel not to exist they're not going to do something which would most likely lead to the Middle East being a nuclear wasteland.
    I agree, generally, about Assad and Saddam, they are/were more secular, but not about the Mullahs of Iran. Death is life to them.

    Israel is just using the rhetoric as an excuse to maintain its dominance in the nuclear arena; without the rhetoric they would still strike just as US would strike problems if Mexico or Cuba started developing or possessing nukes, basically the usual "nukes for me and not for you!"
    Yes and how many times since 1948 have the Arabs tried to wipe the Jews off the map? They have a right to be apprehensive.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      You know Paprika, I generally agree with you, but here you are off your rocker. Iran does not have the army or power to destroy Israel at this point. But they are, according to their limited resources, sowing destruction all around the Middle East. They certainly are showing the mindset.
      Like the US did?

      They are involved in conflict, yes, but those conflicts have specific purposes which do not include self-destruction.

      They know their history. And this is exactly what they heard in the 1930s.
      Hardly what 'they' heard, given that most of them weren't even born them. As I pointed out in the other thread Israel is hardly the victim now.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Again, this is just silly. Everyone had known from the 80s that they have nukes. The reason there hasn't been an arms race it because their Arab neighbors didn't believe that Israel would attack them, and they haven't.
        Then why don't they openly admit what everyone knows? And I have shown in the links that some of Israel's neighbours did try to develop nukes, but the attempts were halted or delayed.

        I agree, generally, about Assad and Saddam, they are/were more secular, but not about the Mullahs of Iran. Death is life to them.
        I would like proof for that.

        Yes and how many times since 1948 have the Arabs tried to wipe the Jews off the map? They have a right to be apprehensive.
        Apprehensive, yes, but to aggressively attack other countries to prevent them from getting weapons they themselves have? I don't think that has been demonstrated at all, either for Israel or the US.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
          Like the US did?

          They are involved in conflict, yes, but those conflicts have specific purposes which do not include self-destruction.
          Not yet. You don't really think that they would destroy the Jewish state if they could?


          Hardly what 'they' heard, given that most of them weren't even born them. As I pointed out in the other thread Israel is hardly the victim now.
          I mean them as a people! And this is exactly what they heard. And yes they are not victims today because they have a strong military.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            Then why don't they openly admit what everyone knows? And I have shown in the links that some of Israel's neighbours did try to develop nukes, but the attempts were halted or delayed.
            I'm glad they did not get nukes. And I have no idea why they won't admit, but it is and has been, and open secret. I mean we are talking about it now.


            I would like proof for that.
            What proof - that God will reward them for dying in jihad? Really Paprika?


            Apprehensive, yes, but to aggressively attack other countries to prevent them from getting weapons they themselves have? I don't think that has been demonstrated at all, either for Israel or the US.
            Again, I have no problem stopping countries that are sworn to your destruction from getting nukes. If Mexico was sworn to destroying the US I would want my government to prevent them from getting nukes or WMDs in general.
            Last edited by seer; 04-29-2015, 08:11 AM.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Not yet. You don't really think that they would destroy the Jewish state if they could?
              I've already said it more than once.

              I mean them as a people! And this is exactly what they heard.
              So what?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                I'm glad they did not get nukes. And I have no idea why they won't admit, but it is and has been, and open secret. I mean we are talking about it now.
                The point is that Israel getting nukes spurred an arms race amongst its neighbours (remember all the hoo-ha over Saddam's WMD program which turned out to not be as advanced as Bush et al. lied?) which is continuing even now in Iran though Iraq's and Syria's have been halted. (It is of course mere coincidence that the Western powers have heavily intervened in Syria and invaded Iraq, 2 neighbours of Israel that were embarking on nuclear programmes).

                What proof - that God will reward them for dying in jihad? Really Paprika?
                Proof that the Mullahs would actually advocate the destruction of Israel which would also result in their own destruction.

                Again, I have no problem stopping countries that are sworn to your destruction from getting nukes. If Mexico was sworn to destroying the US I would want my government to prevent them from getting nukes or WMDs in general.
                See, this is why everyone rolls their eyes when the US appeals to 'international law' with regards to Ukraine or others because it has virtually no qualms about violating it when it so wishes.
                Last edited by Paprika; 04-29-2015, 08:09 AM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  Proof that the Mullahs would actually advocate the destruction of Israel which would also result in their own destruction.
                  You mean they don't really believe that God will reward them if they die in jihad?

                  See, this is why everyone rolls their eyes when the US appeals to 'international law' with regards to Ukraine or others because it has virtually no qualms about violating it when it so wishes.
                  That doesn't change what I said. And 'international law' if feckless and impotent.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    You mean they don't really believe that God will reward them if they die in jihad?
                    I'd like proof, yes.

                    That doesn't change what I said.
                    All you said was that you would have no problems with interventions. I get it, I know you hold that opinion.

                    And 'international law' if feckless and impotent.
                    Not least because powerful nations like yours routinely break it while trying to use it as a club when convenient.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      I'd like proof, yes.
                      Read their holy books. Will God reward them if they die in jihad? Do they want to take the world for Islam?

                      All you said was that you would have no problems with interventions. I get it, I know you hold that opinion.
                      Right, is someone is threatening our existence I have no problem with intervention. Why should I?


                      Not least because powerful nations like yours routinely break it while trying to use it as a club when convenient.
                      Well like I said, I could care less about international law.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Read their holy books. Will God reward them if they die in jihad? Do they want to take the world for Islam?
                        Argument by book is scarcely different from argument by weblink.

                        Well like I said, I could care less about international law.
                        Evidently. And the cumulatively effect of lawlessness is more lawlessness.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                          Argument by book is scarcely different from argument by weblink.
                          So you don't believe that they believe that God reward them if they die in jihad? That is not a tenet of their faith?


                          Evidently. And the cumulatively effect of lawlessness is more lawlessness.
                          No, international law may or may not have the best interest of my country in mind. I believe in a robust self-defense. I'm not arguing that we should go to war over any little thing, but I certainly can see why a country like Israel doesn't want Iran to get the bomb - especially in light of Iran's explicit threats. Again, there is no reason not to take the Mullahs at their word.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            So you don't believe that they believe that God reward them if they die in jihad? That is not a tenet of their faith?
                            That's for you to demonstrate.

                            No, international law may or may not have the best interest of my country in mind. I believe in a robust self-defense.
                            This hardly contradicts the fact that lawlessness tends to beget lawlessness.

                            Again, there is no reason not to take the Mullahs at their word.
                            We've already covered this: they're not suicidal.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              That's for you to demonstrate.
                              You mean teachings like this:

                              Q4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fights in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

                              SM 20:4645. "Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah, Islam and Muhammad is entitled to enter Paradise. But there is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred times higher, Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

                              SB 53:386. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or pay Jizya (tax); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: "Whoever amongst us is killed shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master."
                              This hardly contradicts the fact that lawlessness tends to beget lawlessness.
                              This is nonsense, who says that not following international law lawless? Who says that international law is just in the first place?


                              We've already covered this: they're not suicidal.
                              Right they are not suicidal since death leads to life. A luxurious life...
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                You mean teachings like this:
                                Which is not proof of the ruling Mullahs' beliefs.

                                This is nonsense, who says that not following international law lawless?
                                By definition.

                                Comment

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