Texas Pastor Protection Bill

[RumTumTugger]

I have already given the example of the aggressive tactics of the Mayor of Houston, her Democrat activist judge, the testimony before the Senate Committee from a homosexual man FOR the Bill, who could well be the same homosexual man who told his own pastor that his own community was discussing how to infiltrate their Church - we have seen the incredibly activist tactics of the gay/lesbian community chanting "hail Satan" on the State Capitol steps in support of Wendy Davis' failed run for Governor based on abortion.

Sam, while the vast majority of gays/lesbians may be be "nice people", those leading the militancy are not. They are filled with hate, and downright determined to fight against all the Church holds dear.



That's quite disingenuous, Sam. In fact, I've indicated OTHERWISE - they are reportedly planning on infiltrating the Churches to work from within. No "beating down the doors" necessary. In fact, that implies that the Church's doors are locked to them - they're not. I have a couple of lesbians in my Church, and one gay guy. They know my stand on homosexuality, but they also appreciate that I preach the Bible without watering it down.

We don't hate gays and lesbians. Oddly enough, my Jewish atheist lesbian feminist executive admin actually asked ME to perform the wedding for her son and his girlfriend. I accepted - they declined. (because it was going to be a "Christian" wedding)



I don't think you have any idea whatsoever the extent to which some of these militant self-appointed spokespeople of the gay/lesbian coalition are capable of, Sam.

One wonders why Sam is ignoring all the evidence proving him wrong Non existence of the problem this bill is in response to?

[Cow Poke]

one wonders why Sam is ignoring all the evidence proving him wrong about the problem this bill was written for being non existent.

It's an inconvenient truth?

[Leonhard]

Are you the guy who, until recently, wasn't even sure of his faith?

I think God had enough of it.

And I think Christ's Mother intervened on my behalf... I don't really like to think of what might have happened if I hadn't gotten on a good track again.

[Starlight]

One of the pastors, for example, had a young homosexual man come to him with concerns that he had been in a meeting with some of his GLBT community, and they were discussing ways of infiltrating the Church.

What are they going to do, attend church? Dun, dun, DUUUUN!!!
I look forward to the movie and/or news headline.

So, the gay guy who talked to his pastor about the militant intents of his "community" is a liar?

My money would personally be on that maybe he's a sincere religious fanatic who's been taught to believe that the gays are out to get the Christians and he's been taught to see that wherever he looks. It would also be on the fact that this is a you've-heard from someone who's heard a story that's grown in the telling. It would also be on the fact that this is a sample size of one, and just because one tiny group of gay people talked once in private about their response to Christians, doesn't exactly prove anything at all about other gay people - nor for that matter is it something that Christians aren't equally guilty of on a much more massive scale. But it could be that he's mentally ill. It could be that he's an attention-seeking liar.

Your whole attitude is an utterly ridiculous instance of a persecution complex. You are part of the majority, you are part of the persecutors. When the minority fights back a little, you don't get to shout "persecution" from the rooftops. Or if you do you look ridiculous.

How many folks is the Lord converting as a result of YOUR "strategy", Sam? Have you ever actually won anybody to Christ?

CP, it was because of Christians like you that I left Christianity. If Christians had all been like Sam I would still call myself a Christian today. In your enthusiasm to head-count your direct converts you seem to be overlooking the difficulty of counting the number of people your awful attitude has driven away.

[Leonhard]

CP, it was because of Christians like you that I left Christianity. If Christians had all been like Sam I would still call myself a Christian today. In your enthusiasm to head-count your direct converts you seem to be overlooking the difficulty of counting the number of people your awful attitude has driven away.

At least you have your priorities straight, the fact that you personally didn't feel comfortable being around other Christians, is of course more important than the many people who didn't even know Christ.

I have yet to be in a single group, protestant, catholic, atheist, geek culture, who didn't have people I disliked something fierce. The atheists groups sure weren't a paradise of people getting along perfectly. I don't like the Catholic Church, I'm a Catholic because I believe in it, not because I like the people in the pew. Introverted people like me, really have never been treated well at any time or place in the history of mankind, except maybe in desert monasteries.

So I feel your pain, I know where you're from, I agree that the problem you faced was real, but CP's question is legitimate. Sam is decrying a hardline outreach, but he doesn't offer any clear alternatives. I've seen hundreds of soft liberal Christians in my time, telling me how more people would come, and fewer would leave if only we'd stop preaching about... Hell, sin, conversion, etc... at least those particular sins which people today tend to do... it never works, and it never will, because a conversion of the heart is not a matter of PR, its a matter of the Holy Spirit and prayer, and I doubt the Holy Spirit will coorporate much with people who aren't really keen on obeying God.

[pancreasman]

Ah, another fine round of 'I'm a better/realer Christian than you'.

[Cow Poke]

Ah, another fine round of 'I'm a better/realer Christian than you'.

Only if you want to take it that way.

[pancreasman]

Only if you want to take it that way.

Not many other ways to take it. Here we have a perfectly reasonable discussion on the necessity or otherwise of a Texas bill which has degenerated (once again) into 'if you don't believe as I do there is something fundamentally flawed with your Christianity.)

[Leonhard]

Ah, another fine round of 'I'm a better/realer Christian than you'.

Care to be specific about what you're referring to?

[Cow Poke]

Not many other ways to take it. Here we have a perfectly reasonable discussion on the necessity or otherwise of a Texas bill which has degenerated (once again) into 'if you don't believe as I do there is something fundamentally flawed with your Christianity.)

Can you please provide the actual quotes where I said that?

Thanks

[pancreasman]

Can you please provide the actual quotes where I said that?

Thanks

You did not 'actually' say it but it was implied when you started questioning Sam about 'soul winning' and then started a thread about it elsewhere which was a thinly veiled attack on Sam. If I didn't know better I'd say it was 'passive aggressive' I think Adrift's comment in that thread hit the nail exactly on the head.

[Leonhard]

You did not 'actually' say it but it was implied when you started questioning Sam about 'soul winning' and then started a thread about it elsewhere which was a thinly veiled attack on Sam. If I didn't know better I'd say it was 'passive aggressive' I think Adrift's comment in that thread hit the nail exactly on the head.

You're seriously offended that he says that missioning and outreach are very important issues, and that they are defining for a Christian? And that he from this questions Sam's fairly vague proposal.

I don't know what Sam's idea of evangelism is.

[pancreasman]

You're seriously offended that he says that missioning and outreach are very important issues, and that they are defining for a Christian? And that he from this questions Sam's fairly vague proposal.

I don't know what Sam's idea of evangelism is.

And I'm not sure how his idea of evangelism relates to the OP.

[Cow Poke]

You did not 'actually' say it

Correct. Thank you.

but it was implied when you started questioning Sam about 'soul winning' and then started a thread about it elsewhere which was a thinly veiled attack on Sam.

No, it was not a thinly veiled attack on Sam - it was exactly what I said it was --- my amazement that a Christian would find it offensive that he's asked about his role in evangelism.

If I didn't know better I'd say it was 'passive aggressive' I think Adrift's comment in that thread hit the nail exactly on the head.

Yes, you noted that.

[Cow Poke]

And I'm not sure how his idea of evangelism relates to the OP.

Did you read the WHOLE thread, Pman? Particularly where Sam implied that our support for HB3567 would, in effect, result in smaller congregations? It was from there that we went into what I believe is the actual problem with the "smaller congregations", which are most notably the liberal ones. Conservative congregations are actually growing.

Now, what could be a factor in a congregation growing? EVANGELISM!!!! More CONVERTS!