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Look how tolerant they are!

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  • Epoetker
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Secular Muslim nations such as Malaysia, Egypt, or Indonesia don't have de facto religious freedom or equality yet they are hardly intolerant 'TO THE MAX' as evidenced from the lack of de jure or de facto theocracy, which correlates with no state-sanctioned widespread massacre of people from other religions.
    Egypt, Malaysia, and Indonesia(also Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc.) are generally demonstrations of the fact that Islam only becomes tolerable when it becomes corrupt, and the first job of the ruling party becomes the suppression or bribing of the imams. Where Islam is not corralled, it very quickly does become a civilizationally destructive force.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by fm93 View Post
    The way you word this, it sounds as if the religion itself inherently promotes intolerance of other religions, and so you'd expect that basically every predominantly Muslim country exhibits maximal intolerance of other religions. But that isn't the case. Members of other religions have been treated poorly in some predominantly Muslim countries, but the intolerance that you mention isn't universal. Indonesia, for instance, is nearly 90% Muslim, but members of other religions are not collectively living in fear for their lives if they practice their faith.
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Indonesia is a secular democratic country that has a Muslim-majority population. They are not run as an Islamic theocracy. But, assuming Indonesia is your poster child for religious freedom, let's take a closer look.... (bolding mine)
    Secular Muslim nations such as Malaysia, Egypt, or Indonesia don't have de facto religious freedom or equality yet they are hardly intolerant 'TO THE MAX' as evidenced from the lack of de jure or de facto theocracy, which correlates with no state-sanctioned widespread massacre of people from other religions.

    Yes, the minorities are oppressed ranging from occasionally to often (depending on country and part thereof) but that is hardly abnormal given human nature and history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by fm93 View Post


    Can you please address things seriously?
    When I think it's worthwhile, sure.

    You said: "Islam is downright intolerant of other religions TO THE MAX "
    Yes, I said that. And wherever Islam is in control, other religions are quite aggressively stamped out.

    The way you word this, it sounds as if the religion itself inherently promotes intolerance of other religions, and so you'd expect that basically every predominantly Muslim country exhibits maximal intolerance of other religions.
    Ever hear of Sharia law?

    But that isn't the case. Members of other religions have been treated poorly in some predominantly Muslim countries, but the intolerance that you mention isn't universal. Indonesia, for instance, is nearly 90% Muslim, but members of other religions are not collectively living in fear for their lives if they practice their faith.
    Indonesia is a secular democratic country that has a Muslim-majority population. They are not run as an Islamic theocracy. But, assuming Indonesia is your poster child for religious freedom, let's take a closer look.... (bolding mine)

    Source: The Diplomat


    While Indonesia has long been recognized as a relatively moderate Muslim country, available data point to a far darker picture of religious tolerance than the sunny one Kalla suggests. To take just one example, according to a cross-national study on religious restrictions published by Pew in September 2012, Indonesia was actually one of the world’s most religiously restrictive states. Specifically, Indonesia was one of only five out of the 49 Muslim-majority countries in the world to register “very high” ratings in both metrics used in the study – government restrictions on religion and social hostilities involving religion. The other four countries were Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Yemen – hardly good company in this respect.

    Even though the findings from that study relied on data collected for four years from 2007 to 2010, it’s not like Indonesia’s record on religious tolerance has been praiseworthy since then. In fact, it has arguably been worsening. Across Indonesia, religious minorities, including Christians and Shia Muslims, have increasingly been harassed, threatened and attacked by Sunni Islamist militant groups like the Islamic Defenders Front. Indonesia’s Setara Institute, which monitors religious freedom in the country, recorded 220 cases of violent attacks on religious minorities in 2013, an increase from 91 such cases in 2007. Too often, the Indonesian government and mainstream Muslim organizations have either failed to adequately respond to these incidents or been complicit in them in some way. “The constitution allows for religious freedom, but some laws and policies restrict it,” the U.S. State Department noted in its last annual report on international religious freedom for Indonesia released in July.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Are you packing your bags and moving to Indonesia?

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  • Raphael
    replied
    Very rarely, if ever, have I clone across bigot and homophobe where it has not been used to indicate that the person on the receiving is intolerant and not worth listening to.

    Leave a comment:


  • fm93
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post




    Thanks, fm - I needed a good laugh.


    Can you please address things seriously? You said:

    Islam is downright intolerant of other religions TO THE MAX
    The way you word this, it sounds as if the religion itself inherently promotes intolerance of other religions, and so you'd expect that basically every predominantly Muslim country exhibits maximal intolerance of other religions. But that isn't the case. Members of other religions have been treated poorly in some predominantly Muslim countries, but the intolerance that you mention isn't universal. Indonesia, for instance, is nearly 90% Muslim, but members of other religions are not collectively living in fear for their lives if they practice their faith.

    And again, in the countries in which non-Muslims are living in fear, how do you determine that it's due because of Islam, rather than a political attempt at controlling the populace?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    It took me a long time, and a lot of research to come to terms with the fact of Islam's real teachings. Probably because the Muslims I had met, or known through other ways, were not like that. Core Islamic teaching for over a millennium have been about Dar ul Islam doing what ever it can to conquer Dar ul Harb, through any means necessary. Mohammed himself exemplified this after he left Mecca.
    And the fact that many Muslims MAY be ignorant of this doesn't change the fact that money they contribute funds this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cerebrum123
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post




    Thanks, fm - I needed a good laugh.
    It took me a long time, and a lot of research to come to terms with the fact of Islam's real teachings. Probably because the Muslims I had met, or known through other ways, were not like that. Core Islamic teaching for over a millennium have been about Dar ul Islam doing what ever it can to conquer Dar ul Harb, through any means necessary. Mohammed himself exemplified this after he left Mecca.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied


    Originally posted by fm93 View Post
    But you haven't actually provided valid evidence of that claim. What you've shown is that some areas in which Islam is the official state religion are intolerant of other religions, not that Islam itself somehow inherently promotes intolerance.
    Thanks, fm - I needed a good laugh.

    Leave a comment:


  • fm93
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    ABSOLUTELY not. Why are you so reluctant to admit that Islam is downright intolerant of other religions TO THE MAX?
    But you haven't actually provided valid evidence of that claim. What you've shown is that some areas in which Islam is the official state religion are intolerant of other religions, not that Islam itself somehow inherently promotes intolerance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I don't spend any money on my vowels, I pillage them from the texts of American writers.

    Thumbs up for knowing how to properly use asterisks.

    Leave a comment:


  • JonathanL
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You keep wasting money on buying unnecessary vowels, and you will end up in poverty like a savage*.



    *if, indeed, savages generally end up in poverty
    I don't spend any money on my vowels, I pillage them from the texts of American writers.

    Thumbs up for knowing how to properly use asterisks.
    Last edited by JonathanL; 04-18-2015, 10:30 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by fm93 View Post
    Well, generally not...
    ABSOLUTELY not. Why are you so reluctant to admit that Islam is downright intolerant of other religions TO THE MAX?

    In fact, please show me some exceptions.

    Leave a comment:


  • fm93
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    OK, I can't.....

    Gonna try ONE MORE time with this "tolerance" / "intolerance" thing.

    Dear sweet fm:

    When I was in Israel recently, there were Mosques and Muslims all over the place. In Old City Jerusalem, you could hardly tell where the Jewish quarter began, and the Muslim or Christian or Armenian quarters ended OR began - everybody was getting along just fine. MOSQUES, fm, in Israel - about TWENTY of them in such a tiny JEWISH country.

    In areas where Islam is in control, are Christian Churches allowed to operate? Are nonbelievers (in Islam) allowed to live in peace? Are ancient religious structures allowed to exist?

    Now, talk to me about tolerance and intolerance, please.

    Your buddy,

    CP
    Well, generally not...but what exactly does this have to do with what I was saying about how people commonly use the word "bigot" in a way that doesn't necessarily involve intolerance?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Why would I want to go from writing with class to writing like a savage?
    You keep wasting money on buying unnecessary vowels, and you will end up in poverty like a savage*.



    *if, indeed, savages generally end up in poverty

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by fm93 View Post
    His response to my post was literally an onomatopoeic word referring to regurgitation.
    Yes, I thought it was clever on your part. And, I guess it was, INDEED, more polite and civil than other words you could have used.

    Leave a comment:

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