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How All Traffic Stops Should Go

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  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by fm93 View Post
    Well, yes, I thought it was clear that I was being a bit facetious. I obviously didn't think that that was actually your point; I just wasn't really sure exactly what your point was.
    Whew. sweat2.gif You had me worried for a second...

    Okay, that's fair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raphael
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    That is because the police didn't hijack your car.
    No, but around the some time period some fine upstanding members of the SAPS did hijack a friend's car (to be exact, my mom's friend's son's best mate.).

    Leave a comment:


  • Raphael
    replied
    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
    To be clear, when you say "my hijacking" are you referring to an incident wherein your car was hijacked by someone else, or do you mean that you personally committed a hijacking?
    My car was hijacked by someone else.

    Leave a comment:


  • fm93
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Do you try to bait us into calling your remarks stupid? Because this looks like top grade chum here. You can't seriously think that was the point I was making. PLEASE tell me you were trying to be facetious... PLEASE??
    Well, yes, I thought it was clear that I was being a bit facetious. I obviously didn't think that that was actually your point; I just wasn't really sure exactly what your point was.

    But they STILL need to know that doing what the cop says when he says it will generally lead to peaceful interactions with the cops. The Police are not the enemy, despite how a large swath of the entire culture is trying to portray them.
    Okay, that's fair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    and Ferguson it was shown that Brown was the instigator, did try to kill Wilson and it was justifiable killing.
    As is rather clear, I was referring to the report on the Ferguson police department which covered many cases.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects

    Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day.
    As I said, there needs to be evidence. Plane crashes tend to leave spectacular evidence while beatings may not or can be covered up.


    Which don't usually show who inflicted them. And if the person is incarcerated there is time for the wounds to heal.


    Fair enough. The point remains that there is a lot of brutality or corruption that is covered up (cf. the report on Ferguson), most of which wouldn't have come to light if there wasn't an investigation.
    and Ferguson it was shown that Brown was the instigator, did try to kill Wilson and it was justifiable killing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.
    so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects

    Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day. [/quote]
    As I said, there needs to be evidence. Plane crashes tend to leave spectacular evidence while beatings may not or can be covered up.

    They would have bruises and cuts.
    Which don't usually show who inflicted them. And if the person is incarcerated there is time for the wounds to heal.

    Heck you read stories that are obvious fabrications by people claiming police brutality all the time.
    Fair enough. The point remains that there is a lot of brutality or corruption that is covered up (cf. the report on Ferguson), most of which wouldn't have come to light if there wasn't an investigation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.
    Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.[/quote] so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects


    Pray tell how they can infer from the number of arrests that people were or were not brutalised in the process.
    Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day.



    Would you have evidence for that? I would tend to think that if no corroborative evidence could be produced that people would not bother since it would be one side's account against the other.
    They would have bruises and cuts. They probably would have a hospital record. Heck you read stories that are obvious fabrications by people claiming police brutality all the time. It seems that new reporters are not that picky when it comes to running with a story. They just stick in the word "allegedly" and run with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    By that logic, a lot more airliners crash than are reported in the news.
    Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.

    Reporters routinely check the daily arrest and crime stats and if anything is even close to being about a "bad cop" it will be news.
    Pray tell how they can infer from the number of arrests that people were or were not brutalised in the process.

    Not only that but anyone who has been brutalized by the cops would report it to the news channels.
    Would you have evidence for that? I would tend to think that if no corroborative evidence could be produced that people would not bother since it would be one side's account against the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    You asked for evidence, I pointed you to some. And I rephrased my main point because you didn't get it, instead calling it an 'argument from silence'.


    That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

    Please don't think binarily: I'm not saying that most arrests result in brutality or other offense, but rather that by common sense, evidence, and your own logic that the media only reports the sensational fraction we have to conclude that what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.
    By that logic, a lot more airliners crash than are reported in the news.

    Reporters routinely check the daily arrest and crime stats and if anything is even close to being about a "bad cop" it will be news. Not only that but anyone who has been brutalized by the cops would report it to the news channels. It doesn't have to be live on camera to be news.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    You are just repeating yourself.
    You asked for evidence, I pointed you to some. And I rephrased my main point because you didn't get it, instead calling it an 'argument from silence'.

    even allowing for "a lot" of reports not being making the news, that still leaves an overwhelming number of arrests that are justifiable and did not result in any police brutality or other offenses.
    That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

    Please don't think binarily: I'm not saying that most arrests result in brutality or other offense, but rather that by common sense, evidence, and your own logic that the media only reports the sensational fraction we have to conclude that what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    There is the report on the Ferguson police department, for instance. You know that I don't buy the 'rayciss' angle but it did uncover a lot of injustices that were not related to race. And why is that?


    What is your own logic? The news people love the sensational and will publish about the sensational police brutality, true or false. But there will be many where there is no photographic or video evidence available to the media, either with just the victim's word for it, or with at most a few eyewitnesses - that is hardly sensational and is unlikely to be published.

    Now, if the sensational is only a fraction of the non-sensational then the conclusion readily follows.
    You are just repeating yourself.

    According to FBI statistics in 2012 there were 12,196,959 arrests in the USA. That is 33,416 arrests per day. Compared to the number of news reports of bad cops (and in many of those cases the cop ended up being in the right after all) the percentage of news reports to actual reports is .0027% - even allowing for "a lot" of reports not being making the news, that still leaves an overwhelming number of arrests that are justifiable and did not result in any police brutality or other offenses.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...abledatadecpdf

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    what is your evidence for "a lot"?
    There is the report on the Ferguson police department, for instance. You know that I don't buy the 'rayciss' angle but it did uncover a lot of injustices that were not related to race. And why is that?

    The news people love a story like that and so that is what you see and read about.
    What is your own logic? The news people love the sensational and will publish about the sensational police brutality, true or false. But there will be many where there is no photographic or video evidence available to the media, either with just the victim's word for it, or with at most a few eyewitnesses - that is hardly sensational and is unlikely to be published.

    Now, if the sensational is only a fraction of the non-sensational then the conclusion readily follows.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post

    It isn't.

    If only the more sensational incidents are reported in the media that it follows that a lot of police brutality isn't, such as those without photographic/video evidence that can go viral.
    what is your evidence for "a lot"?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    That is because the police didn't hijack your car.
    He should sue.

    Leave a comment:

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