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How All Traffic Stops Should Go

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Raphael View Post
    meh, when I was in South Africa, my hijacking never even made the local news apart from the monthly police crime stats.
    That is because the police didn't hijack your car.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      That is an argument from silence.

      It isn't.

      If only the more sensational incidents are reported in the media that it follows that a lot of police brutality isn't, such as those without photographic/video evidence that can go viral.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        That is because the police didn't hijack your car.
        He should sue.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post

          It isn't.

          If only the more sensational incidents are reported in the media that it follows that a lot of police brutality isn't, such as those without photographic/video evidence that can go viral.
          what is your evidence for "a lot"?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            what is your evidence for "a lot"?
            There is the report on the Ferguson police department, for instance. You know that I don't buy the 'rayciss' angle but it did uncover a lot of injustices that were not related to race. And why is that?

            The news people love a story like that and so that is what you see and read about.
            What is your own logic? The news people love the sensational and will publish about the sensational police brutality, true or false. But there will be many where there is no photographic or video evidence available to the media, either with just the victim's word for it, or with at most a few eyewitnesses - that is hardly sensational and is unlikely to be published.

            Now, if the sensational is only a fraction of the non-sensational then the conclusion readily follows.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
              There is the report on the Ferguson police department, for instance. You know that I don't buy the 'rayciss' angle but it did uncover a lot of injustices that were not related to race. And why is that?


              What is your own logic? The news people love the sensational and will publish about the sensational police brutality, true or false. But there will be many where there is no photographic or video evidence available to the media, either with just the victim's word for it, or with at most a few eyewitnesses - that is hardly sensational and is unlikely to be published.

              Now, if the sensational is only a fraction of the non-sensational then the conclusion readily follows.
              You are just repeating yourself.

              According to FBI statistics in 2012 there were 12,196,959 arrests in the USA. That is 33,416 arrests per day. Compared to the number of news reports of bad cops (and in many of those cases the cop ended up being in the right after all) the percentage of news reports to actual reports is .0027% - even allowing for "a lot" of reports not being making the news, that still leaves an overwhelming number of arrests that are justifiable and did not result in any police brutality or other offenses.

              http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...abledatadecpdf

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                You are just repeating yourself.
                You asked for evidence, I pointed you to some. And I rephrased my main point because you didn't get it, instead calling it an 'argument from silence'.

                even allowing for "a lot" of reports not being making the news, that still leaves an overwhelming number of arrests that are justifiable and did not result in any police brutality or other offenses.
                That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

                Please don't think binarily: I'm not saying that most arrests result in brutality or other offense, but rather that by common sense, evidence, and your own logic that the media only reports the sensational fraction we have to conclude that what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  You asked for evidence, I pointed you to some. And I rephrased my main point because you didn't get it, instead calling it an 'argument from silence'.


                  That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

                  Please don't think binarily: I'm not saying that most arrests result in brutality or other offense, but rather that by common sense, evidence, and your own logic that the media only reports the sensational fraction we have to conclude that what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.
                  By that logic, a lot more airliners crash than are reported in the news.

                  Reporters routinely check the daily arrest and crime stats and if anything is even close to being about a "bad cop" it will be news. Not only that but anyone who has been brutalized by the cops would report it to the news channels. It doesn't have to be live on camera to be news.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    By that logic, a lot more airliners crash than are reported in the news.
                    Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.

                    Reporters routinely check the daily arrest and crime stats and if anything is even close to being about a "bad cop" it will be news.
                    Pray tell how they can infer from the number of arrests that people were or were not brutalised in the process.

                    Not only that but anyone who has been brutalized by the cops would report it to the news channels.
                    Would you have evidence for that? I would tend to think that if no corroborative evidence could be produced that people would not bother since it would be one side's account against the other.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.
                      Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.[/quote] so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects


                      Pray tell how they can infer from the number of arrests that people were or were not brutalised in the process.
                      Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day.



                      Would you have evidence for that? I would tend to think that if no corroborative evidence could be produced that people would not bother since it would be one side's account against the other.
                      They would have bruises and cuts. They probably would have a hospital record. Heck you read stories that are obvious fabrications by people claiming police brutality all the time. It seems that new reporters are not that picky when it comes to running with a story. They just stick in the word "allegedly" and run with it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Except that almost all airlines crashes are sensational.
                        so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects

                        Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day. [/quote]
                        As I said, there needs to be evidence. Plane crashes tend to leave spectacular evidence while beatings may not or can be covered up.

                        They would have bruises and cuts.
                        Which don't usually show who inflicted them. And if the person is incarcerated there is time for the wounds to heal.

                        Heck you read stories that are obvious fabrications by people claiming police brutality all the time.
                        Fair enough. The point remains that there is a lot of brutality or corruption that is covered up (cf. the report on Ferguson), most of which wouldn't have come to light if there wasn't an investigation.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                          so are incidents where police murder or beat up suspects

                          Because if there were a large percentage, there would be alot more stories about them. How many stories per year do you see showing police misconduct? a dozen? three dozen? Compared to over 30K arrests per day.
                          As I said, there needs to be evidence. Plane crashes tend to leave spectacular evidence while beatings may not or can be covered up.


                          Which don't usually show who inflicted them. And if the person is incarcerated there is time for the wounds to heal.


                          Fair enough. The point remains that there is a lot of brutality or corruption that is covered up (cf. the report on Ferguson), most of which wouldn't have come to light if there wasn't an investigation.
                          and Ferguson it was shown that Brown was the instigator, did try to kill Wilson and it was justifiable killing.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            and Ferguson it was shown that Brown was the instigator, did try to kill Wilson and it was justifiable killing.
                            As is rather clear, I was referring to the report on the Ferguson police department which covered many cases.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              Do you try to bait us into calling your remarks stupid? Because this looks like top grade chum here. You can't seriously think that was the point I was making. PLEASE tell me you were trying to be facetious... PLEASE??
                              Well, yes, I thought it was clear that I was being a bit facetious. I obviously didn't think that that was actually your point; I just wasn't really sure exactly what your point was.

                              But they STILL need to know that doing what the cop says when he says it will generally lead to peaceful interactions with the cops. The Police are not the enemy, despite how a large swath of the entire culture is trying to portray them.
                              Okay, that's fair.
                              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                                To be clear, when you say "my hijacking" are you referring to an incident wherein your car was hijacked by someone else, or do you mean that you personally committed a hijacking?
                                My car was hijacked by someone else.
                                Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                                1 Corinthians 16:13

                                "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                                -Ben Witherington III

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