Originally posted by Roy
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Death Or Life?
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Because it's totally sound to generalize based on one member of a very large group."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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This is just as dumb as when a TWebber recently tried to generalize all atheists based on the shooting in Chapel Hill."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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I long ago ceased to be surprised to find people who are angrier at those who draw attention to corruption and abuse of authority than at the people who are actually abusing the authority, or who have more contempt for those among whom law enforcement has a bad name than for those whose conduct actually gives law enforcement a bad name among those people, but that's all a tangent. If you take issue with it, PM me
As for the thread topic, nothing we say here will affect the sentence one way or the other, but it's worth thinking about the message the sentence might send one way or the other (sorry, i have too much rhetorician in me to NOT think about these implications). What would a death sentence say to the people of Massachusetts, who haven't had the death penalty on the books since 1984? To the country as a whole? To the world? What about mercy, however we try to set it up?
aside to hamster: capital punishment in the US is not applied swiftly. There's really no such thing as a speedy execution. The death itself may well be quick, but the lead-up to it almost necessarily takes years and years.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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I'll come to the moderate, halfway conclusion and say that both Dzokhar and the cop who shot a running guy in the back and then planted evidence afterward definitely need to be removed from this weary world as soon as possible.
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Originally posted by Epoetker View PostNot as good as Communism!
Originally posted by seer View PostThere is no murder in your godless universe Tass, just opinion.
No wonder you want to kill him.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostOh religion is much better at murder. Communism and Fascism were mere blips of history whereas the religions go back millennia e.g. take a gander at Moses’ little forays into genocide, or check out the Islamic expansions (and ISIS or Boko Haram), or The Crusades or the Thirty Year's War etc. Endless slaughter at the behest of the gods.
A typically snide remark and demonstrably incorrect, all social creatures have evolved codes of behaviour.
Actually it’s in the alleged "godly universe" that endless murders occur in the name of the various deities - in this instance Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on behalf of his God against the Christian Infidels that dare to worship a rival deity.
No wonder you want to kill him.
For the rest, the body counts and horrifically destructive aftereffects of the French Revolutionaries and their imitators absolutely demolish that of any religious conflict. Lets not forget the 'holiness' spirals that people get into when they don't have a religion to ground them in reality, or prevent them from going off into syncophantic worship of men or fanatical betrayal for short-term gain:
Originally posted by WikipediaThe Records of the Grand Historian records that Zhao Gao, in an attempt to control the Qin government, devised a loyalty test for court officials using a deer and horse:
Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was a deer to be brought before the law and had them executed instantly. Thereafter the officials were all terrified of Zhao Gao. Zhao Gao gained military power as a result of that. (tr. Watson 1993:70)Last edited by Epoetker; 04-10-2015, 02:40 AM.
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Originally posted by seasanctuary View PostThere's no reason to execute people in our society other than satisfaction some people get from killing people."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostPeople who have no interest in justice wouldn't understand.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View Postor the Thirty Year's War etc. Endless slaughter at the behest of the gods."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI was reading recently about the European wars of religion... a period of 124 years of nearly endless war in Europe primarily due to Protestantism vs Catholicism, of which the Thirty Year's War was but one of many. During the Thirty Year's War alone about one third of the population of Germany was killed. All because of divisions within Christianity. It's pretty mind-blowing.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI was reading recently about the European wars of religion... a period of 124 years of nearly endless war in Europe primarily due to Protestantism vs Catholicism, of which the Thirty Year's War was but one of many. During the Thirty Year's War alone about one third of the population of Germany was killed. All because of divisions within Christianity. It's pretty mind-blowing.
Originally posted by wikipediaInitially a war between Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmenting Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers of Europe, becoming less about religion and more a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminenceOriginally posted by TassmanThe enduring themes of relentless slaughter throughout history have been at the behest of the gods – not always but consistently.
Originally posted by wikipediaThe first large-scale violence was engendered by the more radical of Luther's followers, who wished to extend wholesale reform of the Church to a similar wholesale reform of society in general. This was a step which the princes who supported Luther were in no way willing to countenance. The German Peasants' War of 1524/1525 was a popular revolt inspired by the teachings of the radical reformers. It consisted of a series of economic as well as religious revolts by peasants, townsfolk and nobles. The conflict took place mostly in southern, western and central areas of modern Germany but also affected areas in neighboring modern Switzerland and Austria. At its height, in the spring and summer of 1525, it involved an estimated 300,000 peasant insurgents. Contemporary estimates put the dead at 100,000. It was Europe's largest and most widespread popular uprising before the 1789 French Revolution.
Christianity carried on the grand tradition of killing the heretics and enemies of (their) God, certainly, but it was merely following the lead of those that went before and Islam followed suit after.Last edited by Epoetker; 04-11-2015, 11:57 AM.
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Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
LoL no. The biggest slaughters, whether in Europe or China, have been specifically when people are taught to ignore their gods, their history, and their inherited morality, and take power now:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...oups-the-11687
You're full of empty rhetoric Epoetker!Last edited by Tassman; 04-11-2015, 11:18 PM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-...b_1400766.html
"In his hilarious analysis of The 10 Commandments, George Carlin said to loud applause, "More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason," and many take this idea as an historical fact. When I hear someone state that religion has caused most wars, though, I will often and ask the person to name these wars. The response is typically, "Come on! The Crusades, The Inquisition, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11. Need I name more?"
Well, yes, we do need to name more, because while clearly there were wars that had religion as the prime cause, an objective look at history reveals that those killed in the name of religion have, in fact, been a tiny fraction in the bloody history of human conflict. In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone."Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostReally! So Moses’ ...
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