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  • #61
    I'd change "intentionally" to "unlawfully" in that sentence, but otherwise true. There are people whose lives very much need to be willfully and intentionally removed if we're to have any hope of returning true love or hate to the world in our lifetime.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      And then there's the civilised solution of abolishing capital punishment altogether. What is it with Christians with their desire to punish and exact revenge, is it the heaven or hell mentality?
      Unlike you we are still humans. It's your mentality that is abnormal and a product of being sheltered from reality by the civilizations Christians built without your help or the help of your ideological peers. Don't worry, as you bring your nations to your knees you and your descendants (assuming you ever actually get any, statistics aren't in your favor on this one either) will be reminded the hard way why justice is not mocked.

      Just look at the nations worldwide that the Christian USA identifies with in this regard - none from the developed world.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_...ent_by_country
      I don't see the Roman Empire or the British Empire or any of the other great civilizations of the past on that list. Maybe that's why we don't have any great modern civilizations, just a dying superpower surrounded by weak european and pseudo-european poofs?
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        If someone intentionally removes another's life, then that person has forfeited their own right to live.
        Mat 5.38: "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…" But fear not, with some creative exegesis you can support your bias.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          Mat 5.38: "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…" But fear not, with some creative exegesis you can support your bias.
          OH MY GOD HOW DID WE NEVER SEE THAT VERSE BEFORE

          It's an act of protest against an overwhelming power meant to shame the oppressor in a honor/shame culture. It has absolutely nothing to do with government policy. What you call "creative exegesis" is what the rest of us call "education".
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            Unlike you we are still humans. It's your mentality that is abnormal and a product of being sheltered from reality by the civilizations Christians built without your help or the help of your ideological peers. Don't worry, as you bring your nations to your knees you and your descendants (assuming you ever actually get any, statistics aren't in your favor on this one either) will be reminded the hard way why justice is not mocked.
            Capital punishment is not justice nor is it productive and nor is it a deterrent. It is the primitive urge for revenge and demonstrably counter-productive to law and order.

            I don't see the Roman Empire or the British Empire or any of the other great civilizations of the past on that list.
            No, that’s the point. Mostly the current proponents of capital punishment are the underdeveloped, undereducated third-world nations; interesting that the Christian USA identifies with them regarding capital punishment and not with the well developed, well educated western powers which have abolished it.

            Maybe that's why we don't have any great modern civilizations, just a dying superpower surrounded by weak european and pseudo-european poofs?
            Maybe not! I think it reasonable to regard the great western powers collectively as a "great modern civilisation". And it's worth noting that the Roman Empire and the preceding Greek city states, which between them provide the cultural basis of Western civilization, both pre-date Christianity. Furthermore Edward Gibbon, in his ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’, blames Christianity for contributing to its decline and fall.

            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            OH MY GOD HOW DID WE NEVER SEE THAT VERSE BEFORE

            It's an act of protest against an overwhelming power meant to shame the oppressor in a honor/shame culture. It has absolutely nothing to do with government policy. What you call "creative exegesis" is what the rest of us call "education".
            As I said: "fear not, with some creative exegesis you can support your bias" as you've just demonstrated - or rather your parroting of the appalling JP Holding has just demonstrated.
            Last edited by Tassman; 04-14-2015, 06:32 AM.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Capital punishment is not justice nor is it productive and nor is it a deterrent. It is the primitive urge for revenge and demonstrably counter-productive to law and order.
              Revenge IS justice, idiot. You don't understand its value because you're not human, you're an automaton. If someone rapes and kills your wife you neither feel nor desire\ vengeance because you never really cared, you just function according to a pre-written script, like a machine.

              No, that’s the point. Mostly the current proponents of capital punishment are the underdeveloped, undereducated third-world nations; interesting that the Christian USA identifies with them regarding capital punishment and not with the well developed, well educated western powers which have abolished it.
              The Christian USA identifies with every other successful civilization, while gay, effeminate cuckold fetishist Europe and Oceania identify with their own over-inflated ego. The only reason why any of you losers are successful is because the US military is protecting you from the mass sodomy you would receive from the rest of the world if you tried to live your lives like you do now without the help of the rednecks you despise so much.

              Maybe not! I think it reasonable to regard the great western powers collectively as a "great modern civilisation".
              Lawl

              Britain imported foreign barbarians to rape their kids and did nothing in retaliation while the cops refused to arrest them because dat's rayciss. The BBC employed and covered up for a serial molester with britain's poof taxpayer dollars. Their politicians also rape their kids without the slackjawed "educated" metrosexuals that overrun your "great modern civilization" doing anything about it. It's gonna be hilarious watching you losers get devoured when the US inevitably collapses from liberal overload.

              And it's worth noting that the Roman Empire and the preceding Greek city states, which between them provide the cultural basis of Western civilization, both pre-date Christianity. Furthermore Edward Gibbon, in his ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’, blames Christianity for contributing to its decline and fall.
              Yes, Christians took over the East and crushed their pagan oppressors. Meanwhile the West followed similar social and political policies to the average liberal so it's no surprise it collapsed. Many on the left call themselves Christians and think scripture begins with "

              As I said: "fear not, with some creative exegesis you can support your bias" as you've just demonstrated - or rather your parroting of the appalling JP Holding has just demonstrated.
              I was primarily referencing Glenn Peoples, a fellow convict, but whatever, discussing exegesis with my lessers is an exercise in futility.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Mat 5.38: "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…" But fear not, with some creative exegesis you can support your bias.
                palm_tree_face.jpg
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  Revenge IS justice, idiot. You don't understand its value because you're not human, you're an automaton. If someone rapes and kills your wife you neither feel nor desire\ vengeance because you never really cared, you just function according to a pre-written script, like a machine.
                  Justice is impartial and above the emotional, sometimes violent reaction implied by ‘revenge’. But then you’re American; nuff said.

                  The Christian USA identifies with every other successful civilization, while gay, effeminate cuckold fetishist Europe and Oceania identify with their own over-inflated ego. The only reason why any of you losers are successful is because the US military is protecting you from the mass sodomy you would receive from the rest of the world if you tried to live your lives like you do now without the help of the rednecks you despise so much.
                  You jest. Look to yourself and the USA before you start throwing stones at the civilized nations.

                  Britain imported foreign barbarians to rape their kids and did nothing in retaliation while the cops refused to arrest them because dat's rayciss. The BBC employed and covered up for a serial molester with britain's poof taxpayer dollars. Their politicians also rape their kids without the slackjawed "educated" metrosexuals that overrun your "great modern civilization" doing anything about it. It's gonna be hilarious watching you losers get devoured when the US inevitably collapses from liberal overload.
                  Take your meds and get a grip. The USA is collapsing because of its greed, violence, grossly inequitable distribution of wealth, and its racism and drug problems measurable by the highest incarceration rate in the world – by far. All this in the most Christian country in the developed world. Clearly religion is pretty useless at encouraging a just society. “Not even Russia, a post-Soviet country known for locking people up and throwing away the key, is in the same league as the U.S. when it comes to its incarceration rate” – and most of them are black.

                  “Minor drug offenses put blacks behind bars at disproportionately higher rates than whites. And the growing number of whites in prison can be partly attributed to America's massive meth problem that has arisen in the last 10 years”.

                  http://www.businessinsider.com/world...n-rates-2014-1

                  Yep a country in decline alright! It’s a mess, just like Rome was towards the end.

                  Yes, Christians took over the East and crushed their pagan oppressors. Meanwhile the West followed similar social and political policies to the average liberal so it's no surprise it collapsed. Many on the left call themselves Christians and think scripture begins with "
                  The western empire was weakened by Christianity according to historian Edward Gibbon, in his ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’ and he blames Christianity for contributing to its decline and fall.

                  Just as the 4th Crusade subsequently sacked and pillaged Constantinople, the heart of the mighty Christian Byzantine Empire, and so weakened its defences that it was ultimately overrun by the Ottoman Muslims – it remains Muslim to this day, thanks to the western Christians. Ain't Religion Grand?

                  I was primarily referencing Glenn Peoples, a fellow convict, but whatever, discussing exegesis with my lessers is an exercise in futility.
                  My sentiments exactly!
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    But then you’re American; nuff said.
                    No he isn't. He is from Canada.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Capital punishment is not justice nor is it productive and nor is it a deterrent. It is the primitive urge for revenge and demonstrably counter-productive to law and order.
                      Although you're going to find people who feel that revenge is an appropriate outlook for justice, my approach isn't revenge-oriented. I'm more interested in the protection of society. If someone proves to be a dire threat to society, that person should be removed from society, for the safety of the society. The death penalty is one way to remove the threat. Life in prison is another way. I tend to prefer the latter, although I think the death penalty is appropriate in some cases. There is always the possibility of escape from prison, and the criminal may spread dangerous beliefs to other prisoners. The criminal could even find ways to influence events outside prison through contacts. Having said that, I wouldn't be bothered at all if the death penalty goes away.
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        Although you're going to find people who feel that revenge is an appropriate outlook for justice, my approach isn't revenge-oriented.
                        Isn't punishing a criminal a form of revenge anyway?
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          The reality is that if he's given Life instead of the death penalty, and it's found out in prison who he is...(and that WILL happen) then he will most likely not survive anyway. Someone, or some group will kill him...(if they can get to him). He has a death penalty either way...or he will be in solitary the rest of his life...
                          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            Isn't punishing a criminal a form of revenge anyway?
                            Not necessarily. You can act to protect the public without the intent of revenge.
                            Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                              Although you're going to find people who feel that revenge is an appropriate outlook for justice, my approach isn't revenge-oriented. I'm more interested in the protection of society. If someone proves to be a dire threat to society, that person should be removed from society, for the safety of the society. The death penalty is one way to remove the threat. Life in prison is another way. I tend to prefer the latter, although I think the death penalty is appropriate in some cases. There is always the possibility of escape from prison, and the criminal may spread dangerous beliefs to other prisoners. The criminal could even find ways to influence events outside prison through contacts. Having said that, I wouldn't be bothered at all if the death penalty goes away.
                              Yes it is all about removing people who are a danger to society. I agree with everything you say except for your caveat allowing for the death penalty in limited circumstances. It is demonstrably not a deterrent and sociologists argue that it has a desensitizing, brutalizing effect on the very society we’re trying to protect and thus promotes more violence.

                              It’s interesting that the Christian USA goes in for the punitive approach with markedly little success whereas no other country in the developed world allows for the death penalty and, for example, largely atheist Norway has far greater success by focusing on rehabilitation, not punishment.

                              “It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years”.

                              http://www.businessinsider.com/why-n...essful-2014-12

                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              No he isn't. He is from Canada.
                              Actually his profile page says he’s from “Kazakhstan”.
                              Last edited by Tassman; 04-16-2015, 01:35 AM.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                “It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years”.
                                I recall once making the mistake of reading a Chuck Colson book, in which he expressed incoherent outrage towards the Scandinavian prison system for their rehabilitation based system. I think to a significant extent a lot of conservatives get quite a lot of pleasure out of the idea of other people suffering, and thus they want as much punishment to happen as possible. The more violent, severe, and strict the punishment, the better. The extreme version of that conservative tendency can be seen in their enthusiastic endorsement of the death penalty, and also in ISIS's beheadings, burning alive, throwing people off tall towers etc.

                                I also tend to think there is quite a lot of racial prejudice involved in this too. Having "3-strikes and it's life in prison" policies for non-violent drug offences does a really good job at getting black people out of sight and out of mind if the police get a wink and a nod to make sure that they're dragging as many black people as possible in front of the courts on non-violent drug offences and make sure they ignore any white people doing drugs - even when whites are the ones predominately doing the drugs! I think for a lot of the "tough on crime" people in the US, at the back of their minds is this idea that they might be able to get rid of as many blacks as possible by doing this. The absurd thing is that the financial cost of putting a person in prison for a year is greater than the financial cost of sending a person to the country's best university for a year. Things like affirmative action (which conservatives typically hate) are a financially cheaper way of dealing with issues than being tougher on crime.

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