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  • #31
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    I guess you haven't seen the news.
    Please don't characterize a group by the actions of a few rogue members. Especially groups that are devoted to protecting the public.
    Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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    • #32
      Because it's totally sound to generalize based on one member of a very large group.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #33
        This is just as dumb as when a TWebber recently tried to generalize all atheists based on the shooting in Chapel Hill.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #34
          I long ago ceased to be surprised to find people who are angrier at those who draw attention to corruption and abuse of authority than at the people who are actually abusing the authority, or who have more contempt for those among whom law enforcement has a bad name than for those whose conduct actually gives law enforcement a bad name among those people, but that's all a tangent. If you take issue with it, PM me

          As for the thread topic, nothing we say here will affect the sentence one way or the other, but it's worth thinking about the message the sentence might send one way or the other (sorry, i have too much rhetorician in me to NOT think about these implications). What would a death sentence say to the people of Massachusetts, who haven't had the death penalty on the books since 1984? To the country as a whole? To the world? What about mercy, however we try to set it up?

          aside to hamster: capital punishment in the US is not applied swiftly. There's really no such thing as a speedy execution. The death itself may well be quick, but the lead-up to it almost necessarily takes years and years.
          Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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          • #35
            I'll come to the moderate, halfway conclusion and say that both Dzokhar and the cop who shot a running guy in the back and then planted evidence afterward definitely need to be removed from this weary world as soon as possible.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
              Not as good as Communism!
              Oh religion is much better at murder. Communism and Fascism were mere blips of history whereas the religions go back millennia e.g. take a gander at Moses’ little forays into genocide, or check out the Islamic expansions (and ISIS or Boko Haram), or The Crusades or the Thirty Year's War etc. Endless slaughter at the behest of the gods.

              Originally posted by seer View Post
              There is no murder in your godless universe Tass, just opinion.
              A typically snide remark and demonstrably incorrect, all social creatures have evolved codes of behaviour. Actually it’s in the alleged "godly universe" that endless murders occur in the name of the various deities - in this instance Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on behalf of his God against the Christian Infidels that dare to worship a rival deity.

              No wonder you want to kill him.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Oh religion is much better at murder. Communism and Fascism were mere blips of history whereas the religions go back millennia e.g. take a gander at Moses’ little forays into genocide, or check out the Islamic expansions (and ISIS or Boko Haram), or The Crusades or the Thirty Year's War etc. Endless slaughter at the behest of the gods.
                Tassman, at some point, you are actually going to have to learn to compare things by actually counting dead bodies rather than lumping a bunch of names together that you don't know the first thing about. But I guess math class is tough, to say nothing of social studies that actually teaches you something about how societies actually worked.

                A typically snide remark and demonstrably incorrect, all social creatures have evolved codes of behaviour.
                So why do you ignore all the evolved social codes against homosexuality when arguing for it in a seperate thread? It's almost like...hmmm...you don't care about intellectual consistency in arguing so much as winning the present one by any means necessary? Have you considered getting a religion that actually honors truth as holy, or would that cut into your options if violent people took over your neighborhood and you needed to betray people wherever possible?

                Actually it’s in the alleged "godly universe" that endless murders occur in the name of the various deities - in this instance Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on behalf of his God against the Christian Infidels that dare to worship a rival deity.

                No wonder you want to kill him.
                Dzokar didn't seem to be long on piety so much as alienation and the usual Chechen bloodlust, but Islam is noted to be a special case by all disinterested observers, such as Lee Kuan Yew:



                For the rest, the body counts and horrifically destructive aftereffects of the French Revolutionaries and their imitators absolutely demolish that of any religious conflict. Lets not forget the 'holiness' spirals that people get into when they don't have a religion to ground them in reality, or prevent them from going off into syncophantic worship of men or fanatical betrayal for short-term gain:

                Originally posted by Wikipedia
                The Records of the Grand Historian records that Zhao Gao, in an attempt to control the Qin government, devised a loyalty test for court officials using a deer and horse:

                Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was a deer to be brought before the law and had them executed instantly. Thereafter the officials were all terrified of Zhao Gao. Zhao Gao gained military power as a result of that. (tr. Watson 1993:70)
                The Qin dynasty was probably the first big rationalist/anti-religious empire, actually. It lasted about 15 years, took until Mao to really match the body count. One should, at least, respect the martyrs toward the truth in the ancient Chinese Imperial Court, blessedly guileless enough to speak plain facts in the light of day, as the skill is somewhat lessened of late.
                Last edited by Epoetker; 04-10-2015, 03:40 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
                  There's no reason to execute people in our society other than satisfaction some people get from killing people.
                  People who have no interest in justice wouldn't understand.
                  "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                  There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                    People who have no interest in justice wouldn't understand.
                    You mean people who have no interest in revenge wouldn't understand - there's a difference.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      or the Thirty Year's War etc. Endless slaughter at the behest of the gods.
                      I was reading recently about the European wars of religion... a period of 124 years of nearly endless war in Europe primarily due to Protestantism vs Catholicism, of which the Thirty Year's War was but one of many. During the Thirty Year's War alone about one third of the population of Germany was killed. All because of divisions within Christianity. It's pretty mind-blowing.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        I was reading recently about the European wars of religion... a period of 124 years of nearly endless war in Europe primarily due to Protestantism vs Catholicism, of which the Thirty Year's War was but one of many. During the Thirty Year's War alone about one third of the population of Germany was killed. All because of divisions within Christianity. It's pretty mind-blowing.
                        So true! This is why Epoetker’s ‘tough-guy’ rationalizations and selective history are basically just angry ranting. The enduring themes of relentless slaughter throughout history have been at the behest of the gods – not always but consistently. Christianity carried on the grand tradition of killing the heretics and enemies of (their) God, certainly, but it was merely following the lead of those that went before and Islam followed suit after.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I was reading recently about the European wars of religion... a period of 124 years of nearly endless war in Europe primarily due to Protestantism vs Catholicism, of which the Thirty Year's War was but one of many. During the Thirty Year's War alone about one third of the population of Germany was killed. All because of divisions within Christianity. It's pretty mind-blowing.
                          Does not read even the first lines of relevant Wikipedia articles:

                          Originally posted by wikipedia
                          Initially a war between Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmenting Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers of Europe, becoming less about religion and more a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence
                          Originally posted by Tassman
                          The enduring themes of relentless slaughter throughout history have been at the behest of the gods – not always but consistently.
                          LoL no. The biggest slaughters, whether in Europe or China, have been specifically when people are taught to ignore their gods, their history, and their inherited morality, and take power now:

                          Originally posted by wikipedia
                          The first large-scale violence was engendered by the more radical of Luther's followers, who wished to extend wholesale reform of the Church to a similar wholesale reform of society in general. This was a step which the princes who supported Luther were in no way willing to countenance. The German Peasants' War of 1524/1525 was a popular revolt inspired by the teachings of the radical reformers. It consisted of a series of economic as well as religious revolts by peasants, townsfolk and nobles. The conflict took place mostly in southern, western and central areas of modern Germany but also affected areas in neighboring modern Switzerland and Austria. At its height, in the spring and summer of 1525, it involved an estimated 300,000 peasant insurgents. Contemporary estimates put the dead at 100,000. It was Europe's largest and most widespread popular uprising before the 1789 French Revolution.
                          So in other words, religion only really got to killing people in Europe when it's 'more radical elements' (entryists and agitators) developed an appetite for social reform and popular agitation. Am I going to hear you speaking against those things any time soon? Will I hear you even mention the French Revolution, where the anti-religious element was front and center among the leaders and the mayhem destroyed far more of Europe than ever before?

                          Christianity carried on the grand tradition of killing the heretics and enemies of (their) God, certainly, but it was merely following the lead of those that went before and Islam followed suit after.
                          Tassman carries on the grand atheist tradition of making a pretense of debating in good faith, but brings nothing to the table except a stubborn repetition of statements proven perjurious, libelous, slanderous, and absolutely destructive to any man, woman, or society of such that took them seriously. This is because he cannot actually make decisions or change his mind based on new information like a normal person, but must simply repeat a set of pre-written lies that his masters write for eternity. You've probably heard this before, but cry out to Jesus for salvation or you will certainly and deservedly go to hell.
                          Last edited by Epoetker; 04-11-2015, 12:57 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Epoetker View Post

                            LoL no. The biggest slaughters, whether in Europe or China, have been specifically when people are taught to ignore their gods, their history, and their inherited morality, and take power now:
                            Really! So Moses’ land-grabs and genocide against the Canaanite tribes was not at God’s command, as Moses claimed but because he was “teaching the people to ignore their gods”? Come now. I don’t think so. And the European wars of religion were based upon the people “ignoring their gods”? You know this do you? And the Islamic conquest of the great Christian patriarchies and ultimate conquest of the 1,000 year old Christian Byzantium was Islam ignoring its God - or ISIS, Boko Haram etc. You jest!

                            http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...oups-the-11687

                            You're full of empty rhetoric Epoetker!
                            Last edited by Tassman; 04-12-2015, 12:18 AM.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-...b_1400766.html

                              "In his hilarious analysis of The 10 Commandments, George Carlin said to loud applause, "More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason," and many take this idea as an historical fact. When I hear someone state that religion has caused most wars, though, I will often and ask the person to name these wars. The response is typically, "Come on! The Crusades, The Inquisition, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11. Need I name more?"

                              Well, yes, we do need to name more, because while clearly there were wars that had religion as the prime cause, an objective look at history reveals that those killed in the name of religion have, in fact, been a tiny fraction in the bloody history of human conflict. In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone."
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Really! So Moses’ ...
                                Why does the exposed and defeated wretch think it has any right to speak, much less change the subject completely, when it has completely failed to address the original rebuttal? You will answer the original rebuttal or you will find yourself another thread, before I make this one completely about embarrassing you.

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