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Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?

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  • #16
    He's a liar and a traitor to the US, and since we are technically still at war, he should be hanged as a war criminal.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      He's a liar and a traitor to the US, and since we are technically still at war, he should be hanged as a war criminal.
      If we're going to start hanging war criminals, there are a number of people far more responsible for breaches of international law whom we ought to hang first.
      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
        If we're going to start hanging war criminals, there are a number of people far more responsible for breaches of international law whom we ought to hang first.
        TBH, I'm not interested in "international law"
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          TBH, I'm not interested in "international law"
          Then be more careful in your terminology: he's just a traitor, not a war criminal. Frankly, even though he has betrayed the government, I'm still willing to insist that he has done a service to the American people.
          Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
            Then be more careful in your terminology:
            Understood. Although in 13th Century England, the crime of treason encompassed what the Hague calls "war crimes"

            he's just a traitor, not a war criminal.
            That's fair.

            Frankly, even though he has betrayed the government, I'm still willing to insist that he has done a service to the American people.
            He betrayed his country's government, his company that he worked for, and the oath of secrecy one takes when one agrees to handle classified material. He had no right to disseminate that material, regardless of his attempt at "service" to the people (who never asked him for that service in the first place). He lied, broke the confidentiality agreement that HE signed, and exposed classified information. I served 21 years in the US military, and have served another 12 as a DOD employee and contractor, and I know just how important those agreements are. It's from a position of intimate knowledge of these processes and procedures that I have such a disgust for Snowden. My job is information security. What he did was a direct violation of those like me who do what I do. Someone got fired for Snowden's "service", I can guarantee.
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              Understood. Although in 13th Century England, the crime of treason encompassed what the Hague calls "war crimes"
              Nice piece of trivia.

              He betrayed his country's government, his company that he worked for, and the oath of secrecy one takes when one agrees to handle classified material. He had no right to disseminate that material, regardless of his attempt at "service" to the people (who never asked him for that service in the first place). He lied, broke the confidentiality agreement that HE signed, and exposed classified information. I served 21 years in the US military, and have served another 12 as a DOD employee and contractor, and I know just how important those agreements are. It's from a position of intimate knowledge of these processes and procedures that I have such a disgust for Snowden. My job is information security. What he did was a direct violation of those like me who do what I do. Someone got fired for Snowden's "service", I can guarantee.
              I should hope someone got fired for this clear instance of government over-reach.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                It's not a witticism, it's a literary reference. In the fairy tale, everyone can see that the emperor is naked, just as, apparently, everyone knows that the U.S. is spying on them. You would have states pretend, in their direct interactions with each other, as if this is not the case. Snowden provides evidence of what you suggest is obvious among states, and this is supposed to be a startling and scandalous revelation?
                I know what it refers to. The reference just doesn't make any sense because, as I explained over and over and over, it's not the fact that he revealed that the US is spying that's the problem. It's that he revealed the specific details. At this point I think you're simply playing stupid because I find it hard to believe you actually are too dumb to tell the difference.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                  I should hope someone got fired for this clear instance of government over-reach.
                  Not what I meant. Someone got fired for him leaking the docs, not for the content of them.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    He's a liar and a traitor to the US, and since we are technically still at war, he should be hanged as a war criminal.
                    What did he lie about?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                      I know what it refers to. The reference just doesn't make any sense because, as I explained over and over and over, it's not the fact that he revealed that the US is spying that's the problem. It's that he revealed the specific details. At this point I think you're simply playing stupid because I find it hard to believe you actually are too dumb to tell the difference.
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      Not what I meant. Someone got fired for him leaking the docs, not for the content of them.
                      Let's you and him fight: is it the leaking itself that's problematic, or the content of the leak?

                      DE, I said quite clearly in post #13 that you had a point with respect to the content of the leak, but I took issue with your suggestion from post #9 that admitting it openly causes diplomatic issues.
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        What did he lie about?
                        He took an oath to not disclose classified information. He then leaked it. He's a liar.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                          Let's you and him fight: is it the leaking itself that's problematic, or the content of the leak?
                          Had he kept his word to not leak the information, the content would have remained classified.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            He took an oath to not disclose classified information. He then leaked it. He's a liar.
                            Oh okay, I thought you were talking about facts regarding the prism program which all I'm concerned about.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              Oh okay, I thought you were talking about facts regarding the prism program which all I'm concerned about.
                              Being in the intelligence community, I'm more concerned about the actual leaking of classified documents.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                Being in the intelligence community, I'm more concerned about the actual leaking of classified documents.
                                Ah, that explains a lot.

                                Comment

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