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Patriotism is evil?

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  • Patriotism is evil?

    So patriotism is the problem...

    Is American Patriotism Getting Out of Hand?

    It’s been called the last refuge of scoundrels. It is undeniably linked to “us-against-them” tribal impulses, rooted in emotion and often impervious to reason. It feeds nationalism and militarism, making it a potentially dangerous phenomenon in a world of modern weaponry. Yet patriotism—outward, vocal, and enthusiastic patriotism—is still considered a vital element in American politics, an aspect of our culture that we not only tolerate but encourage....


    ...This aversion to facts is a defining characteristic of modern American patriotism. As Americans wave their flags and puff out their chests with national pride, they are oblivious to facts relevant to their own civil discourse. Only 35 percent of Americans could name even a single justice on the Supreme Court, according to the New York Times . The same piece revealed that 30 percent could not name the vice president, while even fewer could place the American Revolution in the correct century. It only gets worse when we ask Americans to consider facts outside their own borders. Reports show (link is external) that as many as 85 percent cannot locate Iraq on a map and more than half can’t locate India.

    This staggering lack of knowledge, combined with a blind and emotional patriotism, is a formula for disaster. The result is a proliferation of uninformed American exceptionalism that is akin to a social narcissism, a self-centered sense of importance and superiority that can have dire consequences.
    Also, if Americans are so clueless about civics and history isn't that a reflection on the educational system?

    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    What is the source for the OP?
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...tting-out-hand
    Last edited by Bill the Cat; 06-09-2015, 12:31 PM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    I used to be what you'd call patriotic, but I've come to realize that the ideal of America that I believed in died a long time ago.

    Comment


    • #3
      I want to be a nationalist but a Canadian nationalist is pretty much an oxymoron.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Like Darth Executor, I live in a country where patriotism just isn't a thing. So whenever I see americans being patriotic I find it quite amusing because I find the concept of patriotism quite funny.

        I also think it substantially retards progress in the US: People there who are truly convinced of their idea of "We're #1 at everything" don't seem to ever bother to look at the rest of the world in order to learn from the failures and successes of others.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
          I want to be a nationalist but a Canadian nationalist is pretty much an oxymoron.
          The point flew way over my head.
          "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
          "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
          Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Like Darth Executor, I live in a country where patriotism just isn't a thing. So whenever I see americans being patriotic I find it quite amusing because I find the concept of patriotism quite funny.

            I also think it substantially retards progress in the US: People there who are truly convinced of their idea of "We're #1 at everything" don't seem to ever bother to look at the rest of the world in order to learn from the failures and successes of others.
            So you come from a country where love and devotion for your country isn't a thing?
            "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
            "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
            Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
              I used to be what you'd call patriotic, but I've come to realize that the ideal of America that I believed in died a long time ago.
              I don't think it's dead - maybe on life support.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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              • #8
                Ironically, patriotic fervor seems to be reversed with the USA and the rest of the world when it comes to the World Cup.
                Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What is the source for the OP?
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                    So you come from a country where love and devotion for your country isn't a thing?
                    Not in the sense that Americans tend to use those words.

                    If patriotism means enthusiastic support for our sports teams in international events then yes, but that has vastly more to do with love of sport than love of country. If patriotism is simply answering yes to the question of "overall, do you have a more positive than negative view of your country?" or "are there many things about your country that you love?" then yes, there is a quiet contented sort of patriotism here, which I would describe as a generalized fact-based pride in our country's various merits. But I don't think that's what most people really mean when they think of patriotism.

                    If patriotism is understood to mean any of:
                    - zealous flag-waving or significant respect for the flag itself
                    - regular recitations of a pledge of allegiance or zealous singing of the national anthem
                    - the belief that we're number one at everything regardless of facts
                    - the thought that joining the military is serving the country
                    - the belief that anything our country does is right and best simply because our country is That Awesome
                    - idealizing the imposition of our ideals on the rest of the world through militantism or cultural expansion
                    - the belief that our country has a special historical role in God's Plan for the world
                    ...then no, we don't have that.

                    Those are things I often see in American displays of patriotism which don't equate to anything in my own experience here.

                    American patriotism often seems to involve what I perceive as a bizarre kind of double-think where people will say something like "The American system of government is the greatest the world has ever seen or known" and then only a short time later lament that "our government is broken" and tell me how they think it needs some sort of major fix. I had one American women monologue to me for half an hour about why America is broken and the current problems with America's health system, police force, judicial system, etc and I felt her concerns were well-placed and reasonable, and then as she finished she remembered I was a foreigner and tacked on "but, of course, America is number one!" at which point I was like "?!?" and she seemed rather offended when I wasn't willing to agree.
                    Last edited by Starlight; 03-17-2015, 09:15 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                      Ironically, patriotic fervor seems to be reversed with the USA and the rest of the world when it comes to the World Cup.
                      But the USA doesn't even play in the ICC Cricket World Cup. (which is being played at the moment and co-hosted by us and the Aussies).
                      "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                      -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                      1 Corinthians 16:13

                      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                      -Ben Witherington III

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                        But the USA doesn't even play in the ICC Cricket World Cup. (which is being played at the moment and co-hosted by us and the Aussies).
                        Why do you enjoy playing with bugs?gross.
















                        "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                        "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                        Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                          But the USA doesn't even play in the ICC Cricket World Cup. (which is being played at the moment and co-hosted by us and the Aussies).
                          We can't be bothered to generate enough patriotism to even form a team for something like that.

                          You know, it occurs to me that the only time I enjoyed watching cricket was when the 5th Doctor was playing it in Doctor Who...
                          Last edited by Yttrium; 03-17-2015, 09:37 PM.
                          Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                            Why do you enjoy playing with bugs?gross.
















                            I shudder at the general ignorance and uncouthness of you Americans
                            "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                            -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                            Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                            1 Corinthians 16:13

                            "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                            -Ben Witherington III

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                              I shudder at the general ignorance and uncouthness of you Americans
                              As an American immigrant, I know cricket is a sport with 3 outs and when you hit it out the ball park it's called a home run.
















































                              "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                              "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                              Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                              Comment

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