Seems like you misunderstood my comments. I care about people and their wellbeing. What I do not care about is my genes. You still haven't explained why I should. You seem to be assuming my genes are significantly different to everyone else's and significantly better than everyone else's, both of which just strike me as strange beliefs.
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"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSeems like you misunderstood my comments. I care about people and their wellbeing. What I do not care about is my genes. You still haven't explained why I should. You seem to be assuming my genes are significantly different to everyone else's and significantly better than everyone else's, both of which just strike me as strange beliefs."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View Postbecause you don't you and others like you are failed organisms from a naturalistic perspective.
It's cute you invent reasoning from a 'naturalistic perspective'. How about you leave us atheists to say what conclusions our own beliefs entail, instead of making up absurdities and inventing terms that we supposedly ought to believe? Funnily enough, people who actually believe things tend to be better at working out what their own beliefs entail than do biased 3rd parties. Instead stick with telling your fellow Christians what your shared beliefs entail.Last edited by Starlight; 03-19-2015, 05:34 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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You do know logic doesn't work that way, right? The conclusion follows or it doesn't regardless of the religious persuasion of the reasoner."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI'm unfamiliar with the term 'failed organisms'. Google's giving me nothing on it... did you make it up?
It's cute you invent reasoning from a 'naturalistic perspective'. How about you leave us atheists to say what conclusions our own beliefs entail, instead of making up absurdities and inventing terms that we supposedly ought to believe? Funnily enough, people who actually believe things tend to be better at working out what their own beliefs entail than do biased 3rd parties. Instead stick with telling your fellow Christians what your shared beliefs entail."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYou do know logic doesn't work that way, right? The conclusion follows or it doesn't regardless of the religious persuasion of the reasoner.
People themselves are usually pretty good at working out what their own beliefs entail.
D.E.: Your view seems some sort of weird hybrid of Dawkins and Hitler that manages to misunderstand both. The spread of ideas can potentially be thought of as evolutionary in nature, with some ideas spreading better than others. But ideas are not spread via genes. Spreading my genes widely would do nothing to affect the spread of atheism or any other idea. Your position just seems to lack any underlying rationale.Last edited by Starlight; 03-19-2015, 06:10 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostPeople themselves are usually pretty good at working out what their own beliefs entail."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Comment
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostPinitial point stands.re logic itself doesn't work like that, sure. But fallible human understanding and psychology does. 3rd parties often misunderstand people's beliefs and views, and so regularly assume that person X's beliefs entail Y when nothing of the sort is true, because they have misunderstood what person X believes.
People themselves are usually pretty good at working out what their own beliefs entail.
We can safely assume his initial point stands."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostD.E.: Your view seems some sort of weird hybrid of Dawkins and Hitler that manages to misunderstand both.
The spread of ideas can potentially be thought of as evolutionary in nature, with some ideas spreading better than others. But ideas are not spread via genes. Spreading my genes widely would do nothing to affect the spread of atheism or any other idea. Your position just seems to lack any underlying rationale."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Starlight View Postlilpixieofterror: Pretending that widespread and severe racial injustice in the US ended 70 years ago is absurd.
Go read about the Department of Justice's report on Ferguson released two weeks ago. I would have a different position on these issues if they were indeed only historical injustices, and weren't part on an ongoing history of discrimination that has continued down to the present day."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt's cute you invent reasoning from a 'naturalistic perspective'. How about you leave us atheists to say what conclusions our own beliefs entail, instead of making up absurdities and inventing terms that we supposedly ought to believe? Funnily enough, people who actually believe things tend to be better at working out what their own beliefs entail than do biased 3rd parties. Instead stick with telling your fellow Christians what your shared beliefs entail.
Aren't you the guy who's posted about what Christianity really entails about homosexuality?
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostFor starters, religiosity is heritable.
eg, in my country New Zealand, in 1956, fewer than 1% of people wrote on the census that they had no religious beliefs. But over the last 40 years, the number of people indicating no religion on the census has grown steadily at a fairly linear rate of one percentage point per year:
There's been little genetic change in the population from one generation to the next. But there's been a >40x shift in religious non-adherence. (What genetic change there's been, due to immigration, has been largely religious immigrants who are Christian, Muslim, or Sikh, which is actually reducing the rate of increase of people answering 'no religion')
In my own immediate family, my parents' generation (parents + their siblings) have 100% stated adherence to Christianity (~80% of them regularly attend church), while myself and my siblings have a 0% rate of religion (although it's possible that one of my brothers would write 'Christian' on the census form, but none of us attend church). No genetic change, but a 100% swing in religion. Given that, do you seriously expect me to think "gee, I ought to have lots of kids so they can share my religious views because they share my genes"?!? Obviously my own family isn't a statistically significant sample size, but I see exactly the same thing in the families of all my friends, and the national statistical data says the same thing.
It's an interesting cultural question of why some countries are becoming less religious faster than others though. Of the English-speaking world, the UK & NZ are each seeing rates of about 1 percentage point per year increase in non-religion, while Canada and Australia are getting roughly half that, and the US and Ireland are seeing much slower increases. (Genetics, however, are not really legitimate explanations, since all these countries have predominantly people of British descent and that hasn't changed from one generation to the next, and insofar as it has the immigrants are far more religious on average that the general population)Last edited by Starlight; 03-19-2015, 08:04 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostAren't you the guy who's posted about what Christianity really entails about homosexuality?
So, no, I'm not hypocritically falling into the trap of making up stuff that I think others ought to believe without any serious knowledge of their beliefs. When I was a Christian I thought Christians, as Christians, ought to support gay rights out of love and compassion due to what the bible said. I continue to think that as an atheist - but it's not a position that I made up as an atheist and suddenly decided that Christians ought to believe it.Last edited by Starlight; 03-19-2015, 08:01 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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And at the same time we are seeing a number of young people, coming from homes where their parents (or grandparents or whatever whānau member they are living with) becoming Christians.
Heck, this evening I'm fetching a bunch of high school kids from Paeroa, who aren't from Christian homes, so they can attend Youth, and these kids are regulars.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThat's mildly interesting at a scientific level. But it's clear that culture and education and society have a much, much, greater effect to the point where genetics is largely irrelevant.
eg, in my country New Zealand, in 1956, fewer than 1% of people wrote on the census that they had no religious beliefs. But over the last 40 years, the number of people indicating no religion on the census has grown steadily at a fairly linear rate of one percentage point per year:
This is all academic though. Even if genetics only had a small impact, the dysgenic effects of atheism would not be any lesser. It just means that the set of people potentially vulnerable to those effects is sizable. If anything, the less genetic inclination towards atheism was, the more of a threat it would be to humanity's future.
It's an interesting cultural question of why some countries are becoming less religious faster than others though. Of the English-speaking world, the UK & NZ are each seeing rates of about 1 percentage point per year increase in non-religion, while Canada and Australia are getting roughly half that, and the US and Ireland are seeing much slower increases. (Genetics, however, are not really legitimate explanations, since all these countries have predominantly people of British descent and that hasn't changed from one generation to the next, and insofar as it has the immigrants are far more religious on average that the general population)"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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