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Students barred from anti-racism meeting for being insufficiently racialized

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    That doesn't make any sense. "justify their policies"? Liberals can't have some pre-existing hidden agenda for their policies, because the policies of liberals do not normally favor themselves
    An obvious non-sequitur.

    What are the motivations for any person who is voting and advocating for policies that will help others and hurt themselves?
    What Darth said.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        I'm not sure what your point is. I found the student article linked somewhere else (honestly don't even remember now), but decided to post the original that was linked to. The article you linked to says the original report was just a misunderstanding, and then goes on to say that the students were barred for being insufficiently racialized. You know, kind of like what the original article said. The only thing your linked article seems to do differently than the original is emphasize "safe spaces", which doesn't seem to make any actual difference. The students were barred because they weren't racialized enough, which AFAICT simply means that they were barred for being white.

        What do you mean by the bolded?
        Had the white students been subjected to racism from people of other skin colors, it sounds like they would have been let in. It's like having an AA meeting and not wanting people in attendance who aren't struggling alcoholics (or their families, if support is allowed). It's not a matter of just being white as it is that being white means you probably aren't facing racial discrimination. In fact, your article showed that the two students turned away were first asked if they had suffered such a thing. They hadn't and didn't need to be there, even in a reporter's role. Would you want a reporter in an AA meeting? I'm guessing not.
        Last edited by Carrikature; 03-19-2015, 11:33 AM.
        I'm not here anymore.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
          Had the white students been subjected to racism from people of other skin colors, it sounds like they would have been let in.
          So, now that they have been expelled from the meeting for their race, they should be fine to get in on the next meeting?

          It's like having an AA meeting and not wanting people in attendance who aren't struggling alcoholics (or their families, if support is allowed). It's not a matter of just being white as it is that being white means you probably aren't facing racial discrimination.
          It's a blatant assumption.

          In fact, your article showed that the two students turned away were first asked if they had suffered such a thing. They hadn't and didn't need to be there, even in a reporter's role. Would you want a reporter in an AA meeting? I'm guessing not.
          When I went to AA back in 1990, yes, we did have 2 reporters there. One was from the local college paper in Omaha doing a study on alcoholism in the Air Force and the other was for a local small fries paper.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            So, now that they have been expelled from the meeting for their race, they should be fine to get in on the next meeting?
            They were expelled from the meeting on the basis of having not been racialized, not because they were white. They were asked if they were racialized. The answer was, and still is, no.


            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            It's a blatant assumption.
            It's not an assumption when one is flat out asked.


            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            When I went to AA back in 1990, yes, we did have 2 reporters there. One was from the local college paper in Omaha doing a study on alcoholism in the Air Force and the other was for a local small fries paper.
            There are a lot of ways to get that information without a reporting needing to be present for the meeting itself. The concerns about judgment are still valid, though they may not be held so strongly in various cases. So what? That reporters have been present doesn't mean no one cared that they were there (or would care in this case).
            I'm not here anymore.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
              They were expelled from the meeting on the basis of having not been racialized, not because they were white. They were asked if they were racialized. The answer was, and still is, no.

              That's not all the article said. "When asked about Hewitt and Knope’s incident, Tanveer confirmed they couldn’t attend the meeting because they were white."




              It's not an assumption when one is flat out asked.
              The assumption is what you posted "being white means you probably aren't facing racial discrimination".




              There are a lot of ways to get that information without a reporting needing to be present for the meeting itself. The concerns about judgment are still valid, though they may not be held so strongly in various cases. So what? That reporters have been present doesn't mean no one cared that they were there.
              Even to satisfy a class assignment on that very subject? The school sponsored event can deny tuition paying members of that school access to a meeting of a club that uses school funds?
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                That's not all the article said. "When asked about Hewitt and Knope’s incident, Tanveer confirmed they couldn’t attend the meeting because they were white."
                Which isn't terribly surprising either, any more than it would be surprising to not want men in a support meeting for women that have been raped.


                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                The assumption is what you posted "being white means you probably aren't facing racial discrimination".
                I'd suggest you need to learn when/where/how racial discrimination is most likely to occur if I didn't think you already knew better. This is little more than a red herring.


                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Even to satisfy a class assignment on that very subject? The school sponsored event can deny tuition paying members of that school access to a meeting of a club that uses school funds?
                There's nothing inherent in paying tuition that grants you full access to anything and everything. Besides, let's not pretend that attendance is the only way to gain the information they're seeking. In truth, the student was given an assignment and chose reporting on the session as a means for fulfilling it. Again, there are other avenues that assignment could be met.
                I'm not here anymore.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  Had the white students been subjected to racism from people of other skin colors, it sounds like they would have been let in.
                  Except that I'd be willing to wager that the types of people who lead meetings like this are the same types of people who think that white people can't experience racism because it requires institutional oppression.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                    Which isn't terribly surprising either, any more than it would be surprising to not want men in a support meeting for women that have been raped.
                    Or, say a group of white college men who want to start a group only for white privileged males. I get it.

                    "Do you have white privilege?"

                    "No."

                    "Sorry we will have to ask you to leave. This meeting is only for white privileged males"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                      Which isn't terribly surprising either, any more than it would be surprising to not want men in a support meeting for women that have been raped.
                      You don't see the difference there, do you? The meeting was not only for "Minorities that had been racialized".



                      I'd suggest you need to learn when/where/how racial discrimination is most likely to occur if I didn't think you already knew better.
                      Anywhere race is used as a factor. Period.

                      This is little more than a red herring.
                      No it isn't. It is rock concert loudly proclaiming that whites simply can't be discriminated against based on their race, and it stinks to anyone who isn't a victim-by-proxy.



                      There's nothing inherent in paying tuition that grants you full access to anything and everything. Besides, let's not pretend that attendance is the only way to gain the information they're seeking. In truth, the student was given an assignment and chose reporting on the session as a means for fulfilling it. Again, there are other avenues that assignment could be met.
                      And denying him access just because he was white is pathetically hypocritical, and no amount of hand waving can excuse that.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                        Well, I suppose that does deserve a response, as I did single you out, perhaps unwisely.

                        Your responses to the article, even excluding the fact you found the article worthy of posting, even before including your latest AFAICT, made it clear you were incapable of spotting its obvious flaws. I don't know how much effort it would take to correct this, but I do know I've no interest in helping you make the attempt. And I also know that's a rock that's unlikely to remain rolled up the hill.

                        There is no lao tzu who is also a Sisyphus.

                        So again, and really this time ...

                        </thread>
                        Ah, I see. Thank you for this helpful contribution to my thread, then. I always value your responses.
                        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                          Had the white students been subjected to racism from people of other skin colors, it sounds like they would have been let in. It's like having an AA meeting and not wanting people in attendance who aren't struggling alcoholics (or their families, if support is allowed). It's not a matter of just being white as it is that being white means you probably aren't facing racial discrimination. In fact, your article showed that the two students turned away were first asked if they had suffered such a thing. They hadn't and didn't need to be there, even in a reporter's role. Would you want a reporter in an AA meeting? I'm guessing not.
                          They did face racial discrimination.

                          I really don't understand why the irony of this is so hard to admit.
                          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                            Which isn't terribly surprising either, any more than it would be surprising to not want men in a support meeting for women that have been raped.
                            Wait a minute...like two posts ago you said they weren't barred for being white, and now you say it's not surprising (and perfectly acceptable, I'm gathering) that they were barred for being white?
                            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              He is saying that if liberals are not breeding as much as conservatives (assuming those are either genetic or learned traits from their parents) then eventually liberals will become extinct or at least they won't matter.
                              That sort of stupid got discredited more than 70 years ago. I would have said no one in the present day believes that sort of thing...

                              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                              Why should people who care about their future and the future of their children let people like you have even a shred of power over them?
                              I care about the future and the future of my children. It's the part where you apparently think passing on my specific genes in large amounts makes any great difference. Other people's genes are, by and large, just as good as mine.

                              I would note that I care far more about the future than do various Christian fundamentalists who:
                              - believe the rapture is highly likely to occur within 50 years
                              - believe we shouldn't act to prevent climate change because "God would never allow it anyway"
                              - look forward with excitement and anticipation to the apocalyptic destruction of humanity and life on earth via Revelation style destruction
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                I care about the future and the future of my children. It's the part where you apparently think passing on my specific genes in large amounts makes any great difference. Other people's genes are, by and large, just as good as mine.
                                Your logic for not caring about your genes was:

                                "When I die, I'll be dead... why would I care about my genes?"

                                Replace genes with kids or the future or anything else past your expiration date and the logic's just as good. Sounds like you're just backtracking now.

                                I would note that I care far more about the future than do various Christian fundamentalists who:
                                - believe the rapture is highly likely to occur within 50 years
                                - believe we shouldn't act to prevent climate change because "God would never allow it anyway"
                                - look forward with excitement and anticipation to the apocalyptic destruction of humanity and life on earth via Revelation style destruction
                                And yet the fundamentalists are the ones who produce the bulk of humanity and will continue to be the ones who produce the bulk of humanity. Despite being seemingly dumb in a naturalistic setting they are extremely successful as far as living organisms go... unlike you. Which was my original point.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

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