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Ferguson police are brutal, racist, and corrupt extortionists

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  • Ferguson police are brutal, racist, and corrupt extortionists

    Because I am primarily interested in conservative reactions, I am going to make a simple request: if you are more liberal than me (if you have to ask, you are), please PM me for permission before you post in this thread.

    Source: http://www.redstate.com/2015/03/15/many-conservatives-blowing-it-ferguson-doj-report/


    I took the time over the weekend to read the entirety of the 102-page Department of Justice report on the Ferguson PD (“FPD”). I cannot recommend highly enough that you do the same. During the course of this reading, I intentionally read it with as jaundiced of an eye towards the Department of Justice as possible. I intentionally disregarded all commentary regarding what the DOJ investigators reported that they saw, and also all of their reported interviews of the citizens of Ferguson and FPD officers. I decided to say to myself, let’s assume that everything DOJ says is a lie, and also that everyone who was willing to talk to the DOJ during the course of their investigation either lied or shaded the truth. What remained astounded me.

    Even if you read only the parts of the Ferguson DOJ report that come directly from the files of the FPD (which is to say, files that would be most favorable to the Department), the report paints an incredibly damning picture of the Ferguson Police Department. No conservative on earth should feel comfortable with the way the Ferguson PD has been operating for years, even according to their own documents.

    © Copyright Original Source



    The writer argues that the Ferguson Police department (1) acts primarily as a revenue generation machine for the city, complete with ticket quotas (and, oddly enough, a pattern of tickets of those with virtually any city hall connections being dismissed), (2) habitually uses excessive force, (3) doesn't have reasonable oversight policies with respect to monitoring excessive force use, and doesn't implement even what it has, (4) makes arrests for what this author calls "contempt of cop," and (5) demonstrates a racial bias in virtually everything it does. These are all things, in the author's view, conservatives should be outraged about. Do you, o TWeb conservatives, agree?

    Supplemental reading from National Review: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...on-lee-steorts
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

  • #2
    I thought there was already a thread saying pretty much the same thing.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      There was a discussion on the report in this thread.

      Do you, o TWeb conservatives, agree?
      To be outraged? No. Why should I?
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
        These are all things, in the author's view, conservatives should be outraged about. Do you, o TWeb conservatives, agree?
        I don't think we need a bunch more trumped up outrage. I think the problem should be addressed, fixed, and move on. outrage schmoutrage!
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          I have permission from the OP to post in this thread.

          I see this as a missed opportunity for conservatives to potentially expand their base by acknowledging concerns of demographics that may not be supporting them highly, and by demonstrating that they do care about people beyond "white rich people" as lazy stereotypes suggest. If this was a federal government agency in Obama's White House, they would be furious at the lack of accountability, and rightly so. Accountability is needed here as well. It bothers me that, as the National Review writer states, many people don't seem to take the concerns seriously at all. I understand not trusting Eric Holder but some rather disturbing facts are documented that should not be ignored just because somebody one doesn't trust is associated with the report.

          The example given of a man who lost his federal contractor job because of being charged spuriously (such as by giving a false identity because he said his name was Mike instead of Michael) is the sort of behavior nobody would tolerate from a state or federal agency; and it's clear there is a pattern, not isolated incidents. In that case, nobody would just be saying "fix the problem and move on", they would be demanding concrete steps and I think the same is needed here.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I don't think we need a bunch more trumped up outrage. I think the problem should be addressed, fixed, and move on. outrage schmoutrage!
            This author ignores everything in the DOJ report except the documents from the Ferguson police department: I don't think his perspective can be easily written off as "trumped up." But let's set aside the difficulty in moving on when the putative defenders of justice and public order act like corrupt thugs. What do you identify as the main problem, and what would fixing it look like?
            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              This author ignores everything in the DOJ report except the documents from the Ferguson police department: I don't think his perspective can be easily written off as "trumped up."
              Yes, there were serious problems - they need fixed -- but OUTRAGE? You want we should pitch a hissy or throw a tantrum?

              But let's set aside the difficulty in moving on when the putative defenders of justice and public order act like corrupt thugs.
              Ah, you ASSUME (falsely) that "moving on" involves doing nothing? You work the problem!

              What do you identify as the main problem, and what would fixing it look like?
              Everything comes from the top - they need a police chief who can be respected, and who has the authority to drastically change the culture. They don't need somebody "raging out".
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Yes, there were serious problems - they need fixed -- but OUTRAGE? You want we should pitch a hissy or throw a tantrum?
                Outrage-- anger-- is a natural emotional reaction to injustice. To know that injustice of this type was perpetuated for this long against this community, and that this pattern of injustice is not unique to Ferguson, and to not allow yourself to feel even a little upset... well, that's pretty coldly cynical. Ought we not be concerned about police officers becoming tax collectors (in very nearly the way 1st century Jews thought of them) rather than defenders of law and order?

                Ah, you ASSUME (falsely) that "moving on" involves doing nothing? You work the problem!
                And understanding the extent of the problem means understanding exactly how much and in what ways it has affected the community, of recognizing the causes of very real and very understandable anger.

                Everything comes from the top - they need a police chief who can be respected, and who has the authority to drastically change the culture. They don't need somebody "raging out".
                Just a new chief, when so many current officers have been so trained in the existing culture, and when the problem apparently involves the court system as well? Last I heard, police chiefs don't have much direct influence over the civil courts.
                Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                  Outrage-- anger-- is a natural emotional reaction to injustice.
                  For sissies, maybe. Men just work the problem.

                  To know that injustice of this type was perpetuated for this long against this community, and that this pattern of injustice is not unique to Ferguson, and to not allow yourself to feel even a little upset...
                  "a little upset", sure ---- "outrage" -

                  well, that's pretty coldly cynical. Ought we not be concerned about police officers becoming tax collectors (in very nearly the way 1st century Jews thought of them) rather than defenders of law and order?
                  Be concerned? Absolutely!

                  And understanding the extent of the problem means understanding exactly how much and in what ways it has affected the community, of recognizing the causes of very real and very understandable anger.
                  I'd much rather have somebody sane and reasonable who could solve the problem than somebody venting anger.

                  Just a new chief, when so many current officers have been so trained in the existing culture,
                  For the police department, yes -- and note I said "with the authority to drastically change the culture. That would include firing and hiring as need be.

                  and when the problem apparently involves the court system as well? Last I heard, police chiefs don't have much direct influence over the civil courts.
                  Sure, forgive me for focusing on the PD... changes at the TOP of those organizations, as well --- I haven't paid as much attention to those other components, but they need changed as well, as opposed to somebody just venting steam.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I thought there was already a thread saying pretty much the same thing.
                    To be fair, it can be kind of hard to tell what seer's threads are about just from looking at the titles

                    And this thread is about a pair of articles that popped up on conservative websites about content from the DOJ report that the authors think should give conservatives pause. You can ignore everything but the documents from the Ferguson police department and come away with the impression that the department was corrupt, brutal, and, yes, racist.
                    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                      To be fair, it can be kind of hard to tell what seer's threads are about just from looking at the titles
                      True enough!

                      And this thread is about a pair of articles that popped up on conservative websites about content from the DOJ report that the authors think should give conservatives pause. You can ignore everything but the documents from the Ferguson police department and come away with the impression that the department was corrupt, brutal, and, yes, racist.
                      From everything I can see, that's true - but it's not solved by "outrage" -- it requires cool heads with experience in ... OK, I'll say it ... "agents of change".
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                        Outrage-- anger-- is a natural emotional reaction to injustice. To know that injustice of this type was perpetuated for this long against this community, and that this pattern of injustice is not unique to Ferguson, and to not allow yourself to feel even a little upset... well, that's pretty coldly cynical. Ought we not be concerned about police officers becoming tax collectors (in very nearly the way 1st century Jews thought of them) rather than defenders of law and order?
                        I don't feel upset because the community deserves it (even if particular individuals may not). They turned Ferguson from a previously prosperous city into a dump, chased out most of its white population, and now demand sympathy for a guy who was robbing a store 5 minutes before he got limited for trying to steal a cop's gun. It's not the least bit surprising that the cops who like to work in this kind of environment (or have no other choice) probably lean heavily on the ruthless side, or that the unionized employees at city hall now have to resort to "creative budgeting" to fill up gaps. And I won't feel any sympathy for them until they admit their primary role in creating this situation. Which'll never happen with liberals blaming "racists (by which they mean conservatives, even when they're far more ruthless)" and conservatives blaming "liberals".

                        And understanding the extent of the problem means understanding exactly how much and in what ways it has affected the community, of recognizing the causes of very real and very understandable anger.
                        The problem is that nobody blames the people who started it because they're black. They only notice a problem when there's a backlash against them (even a relatively mild one like Ferguson). The only solution is a national discussion on black violent crime rates (no, they are not caused by poverty, most of the time it's the other way around) and actually pressuring and shaming these communities into improving their behavior. Otherwise nothing will change.

                        My guess is that this post will probably be ignored, or maybe someone like Adrift will get into another fit where he yells jibberish but never actually argues anything. The problem won't be solved and the situation will repeat itself ad nauseam.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No conservative worth his salt is going to get the feels over abuse of power whether alleged or real in a small city most of them don't even live in when the similar or worse charges could be made of certain federal agencies.
                          Last edited by Paprika; 03-16-2015, 10:49 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            No conservative worth his salt is going to get the feels over abuse of power whether alleged or real in a small city most of them don't even live in when the similar or worse charges could be made of certain federal agencies.
                            I'm curious if you would phrase Jesus' reaction to the moneychangers in the temple as the "feels".
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              I see this as a missed opportunity for conservatives to potentially expand their base by acknowledging concerns of demographics that may not be supporting them highly, and by demonstrating that they do care about people beyond "white rich people" as lazy stereotypes suggest.
                              What most blacks require to vote Republican, the Republican party cannot give without betraying its existing base (including its current black constituents, few as they may be, most of whom suffer considerable abuse for holding to conservative principles).

                              If this was a federal government agency in Obama's White House, they would be furious at the lack of accountability, and rightly so. Accountability is needed here as well. It bothers me that, as the National Review writer states, many people don't seem to take the concerns seriously at all. I understand not trusting Eric Holder but some rather disturbing facts are documented that should not be ignored just because somebody one doesn't trust is associated with the report.
                              Federal misbehavior impacts the average conservative. The behavior of officials in some city they don't live them understandably interests them a lot less.

                              The example given of a man who lost his federal contractor job because of being charged spuriously (such as by giving a false identity because he said his name was Mike instead of Michael) is the sort of behavior nobody would tolerate from a state or federal agency; and it's clear there is a pattern, not isolated incidents. In that case, nobody would just be saying "fix the problem and move on", they would be demanding concrete steps and I think the same is needed here.
                              Ferguson is mostly black, there's nothing stopping them from replacing the city's entire leadership (except maybe, ironically, labor laws). I'm not sure why they need conservatives nationwide to do it for them. It's like you guys can't stop infantilizing them even when you're not directly talking about them.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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