they don't even pay good substitute teacher's 15/hr in most places. I don't think flipping burgers is worth 15/hr. It just isn't. In some places the pay of Mcd's is 8.50 /hr but the 1/4 lb large size meal is 9.70. Ugh. Sorry. I can get Really good, authentic American Chinese food (well I can't tolerate it physically anymore, but it taste's GREAT!!!!) for twice that and it feeds 5 people with leftovers!!! And I can order it for dinner from Across the street.
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Impending Minimum Wage hike causing restaurants to close
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIs this the bar that's being set? If the minimum wage law is in effect for, say, half a year, should we be looking for 80% of full-service respondents to have fired employees, closed a location or the entire business, or declared bankruptcy? What part of your position would you change if this wasn't at least close to the case?
To the OP, the liberals here weren't arguing that no business would close ever, even over wage issues. What was argued, if memory serves, is that minimum wage increases in aggregate do not appear to lower employment:
Anecdotal evidence of some stores closing because of increased labor costs will definitely come up now and again. Empirically, however, these appear to be a drop in the ocean and the benefits of increasing the minimum wage vastly outweigh the losses.
--Sam
Sam, you write well, but you don't think thoroughly. It's scarcely surprising that measures of employment or unemployment would show little change considering the small number of people who are really affected. The question we should be considering is, "Do wage floors more good than bad?" We do have to consider the bad side, because every decision the government makes has a price.
I think wage floors do more bad than good. You do not really consider the welfare of employees who are barely getting along before wage floor hikes. For one thing, governments are too expensive anyway (I don't mean expensive in terms of dollars.)Last edited by Truthseeker; 03-13-2015, 05:49 PM.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Catholicity View Postthey don't even pay good substitute teacher's 15/hr in most places. I don't think flipping burgers is worth 15/hr. It just isn't. In some places the pay of Mcd's is 8.50 /hr but the 1/4 lb large size meal is 9.70. Ugh. Sorry. I can get Really good, authentic American Chinese food (well I can't tolerate it physically anymore, but it taste's GREAT!!!!) for twice that and it feeds 5 people with leftovers!!! And I can order it for dinner from Across the street.I'm not here anymore.
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if people don't want to pay more so that the restaurant workers can make a living,
then those people should stay home and cook their own meals and clean their own dishes.To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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I don't think much of this will matter in the future. Most of these jobs can and will be handled by robots. I don't think many people understand the revolution that is about to happen where robotics are concerned. They are becoming easier and cheaper to produce as an alternative to human tasks in most areas. Make the minimum wage 100 an hour. It won't matter. Businesses will look at what is most cost effective. And frankly, a robot is cheaper than a greedy human. What is my point? Get your children to take classes in robotics. They will be in high demand soon.Last edited by Jesse; 03-14-2015, 08:45 AM."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostGet your children to take classes in robotics. They will be in high demand soon.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostPreparation for social revolution and upheaval would be a better idea, as it'll be a toss-up whether the future masses of unemployed can be pacified with panem et circenses."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWell, they were wrong.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostGas prices are not comparable to food prices. For the most part, gas prices are flat across an area, so the option to go elsewhere isn't as realistic as it is for a food establishment.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI could certainly get behind an argument that cost of service and value of service are out of proportion.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I'm loving this thread. The imaginary evidence, about the thing that hasn't happened yet, totally proves that the crazies were right all along. We've reached a new kind of zen with this one."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI'm loving this thread. The imaginary evidence, about the thing that hasn't happened yet, totally proves that the crazies were right all along. We've reached a new kind of zen with this one.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOh, the sweet Iron E ---- YOU calling others "crazies".
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Dimlight View PostI'm loving this thread. The imaginary evidence, about the thing that hasn't happened yet, totally proves that the crazies were right all along. We've reached a new kind of zen with this one.
Even the Conressional Budget Office says that raising the minimum leads to job loss.
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPeople vote with their feet - Chick-Fil-A seems to have figured out this cost/value thing, as you can see by the long lines around the drive-thru and the full parking lots compared to nearby restaurants which almost universally charge less and pay their employees less."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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