Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Impending Minimum Wage hike causing restaurants to close

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, I'm stating fact.






    Nope - there is nothing stopping them from starting their own businesses - nobody forces them to flip burgers.

    Yes there is.
    Smarter competition. Better monopoly players.

    Why should the average worker bee get suckered into playing a game he'll lose every time.

    I think he would be better off changing to some other game he can have a chance of winning, or at least get a tie.
    To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
      Why do you not consider it a real job?
      Because a part time burger flipper job was never intended to be the bread and butter of a family.

      Is it a real job if you are the "grill man" at a 4 star restaurant with a goal to be the head chef?
      Is that a job that pays a livable income and benefits?

      I really don't understand yall's mentality here. SOMEBODY has to cook the hamburger or fry the chicken!
      Why SURE they do, and somebody has to mow the lawn and paint the porch and change the oil..... and I can make informed decisions as to whether I do those myself, or if it's economically in my better interest to pay somebody else to do it.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
        Yes there is.
        Smarter competition. Better monopoly players.
        Yeah, life's tough.... you're part of the "everybody gets a trophy" crowd, eh?

        Why should the average worker bee get suckered into playing a game he'll lose every time.
        There's a sucker born every minute!

        I think he would be better off changing to some other game he can have a chance of winning, or at least get a tie.
        I think maybe that's the problem -- you think this is a game.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
          Who else's interest is corporate acting on behalf of, when they fire a division, (IOW, send them packing off to McDonalds or KFC), after replacing them with robotics
          That has ZERO to do with the minimum wage argument.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Because a part time burger flipper job was never intended to be the bread and butter of a family.
            A full-time burger flipper earning the federal minimum wage would only be earning ~$15,000/year, working 40 hours per week all 52 weeks of the year. We're not talking about part-time laborers making a living wage, we're talking about full-time employees making a living wage.
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
              So you would admit (as would most of us) that it's not fun work, and you wouldn't do it now for the same money as you make now. Tell me why that doesn't qualify as a "Real Job"? It's hard hot, back breaking work. Where the risk from severe burns (ESPECIALLY in your case at KFC) is pretty high! Why if you won't do it for what you make now, it is determined that we should pay people less to do it?

              Well, you probably wouldn't have got it if it paid that much if we are all being honest. In my town it would have been a primo job!
              I never said it wasn't a "real job", but it is certainly not a job that requires a skilled or educated laborer. A few hours of training, literally, is all it takes to learn the business, and the work is priced accordingly. It is entry level work in every sense of the term, and it gets entry level pay. I don't see anything immoral or unethical about that.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                A full-time burger flipper earning the federal minimum wage would only be earning ~$15,000/year, working 40 hours per week all 52 weeks of the year. We're not talking about part-time laborers making a living wage, we're talking about full-time employees making a living wage.
                Where's that "bashing my head against the keyboard" emoticon?

                Sam -- I'm going to type this VERY slowly......

                What percent of burger flippers do you think are flipping burgers as a full time job?

                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It appears that you have decided that a burger flipper should be a "livable wage" job. Is $15 / hour going to do that, Sam? IF that were a full-time job, and paid 40 hours a week, it would STILL only be grossing $31,200 annually. Now, since you're MUCH better at Googling than I am, how many burger flippers would you say actually work 40 hours a week? How many hours a week does the average burger flipper work? Just a preliminary look on my part shows that "the mean hourly wage for fast-food cooks stands at $9.07 and the mean annual wage rings in at $18,870, according to the latest available data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics." (Lost my source after I copied / pasted that, sorry)
                Last edited by Cow Poke; 03-16-2015, 06:36 PM.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Where's that "bashing my head against the keyboard" emoticon?

                  Sam -- I'm going to type this VERY slowly......

                  What percent of burger flippers do you think are flipping burgers as a full time job?
                  raises hand...
                  call me call me I know I know I know. ..
                  ...very low.

                  employers don't like to hire full time employees.

                  so the burger flipper is in the group I alluded to earlier.
                  Americans working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet
                  To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                    raises hand...
                    call me call me I know I know I know. ..
                    ...very low.
                    EGGzackly --- go to the head of the class!

                    employers don't like to hire full time employees.
                    And why is THAT?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Where's that "bashing my head against the keyboard" emoticon?

                      Sam -- I'm going to type this VERY slowly......

                      What percent of burger flippers do you think are flipping burgers as a full time job?
                      In 2014, there were 1.03 million full-time minimum-wage (below or at federal minimum wage) laborers, according to BLS.

                      And typing very slowly doesn't have the same effect as speaking very slowly.
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        In 2014, there were 1.03 million full-time minimum-wage laborers, according to BLS.
                        You're just trying to raise my blood pressure, aren't you?

                        Lemme try again.... and I'll type even slower (kidding)

                        What percent of burger flippers do you think are flipping burgers as a full time job?

                        I didn't ask how many full-time minimum wage-earners there were.

                        And typing very slowly doesn't have the same effect as speaking very slowly.
                        For REALLY!?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          You're just trying to raise my blood pressure, aren't you?

                          Lemme try again.... and I'll type even slower (kidding)

                          What percent of burger flippers do you think are flipping burgers as a full time job?

                          I didn't ask how many full-time minimum wage-earners there were.

                          For REALLY!?

                          If you want to answer that question for yourself, you are free to do your own work. Since the argument is largely that unskilled labor is worth as much or less than the current minimum wage, my argument doesn't rely on that labor being flipping burgers, waiting tables or packing peanuts. The total number of full-time workers making minimum wage or less is more relevant to a discussion about the minimum wage than the percentage of those workers who are line cooks.
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            It depends on the environment.
                            Well, that's true, if you had in mind something like this: In the Soviet Union the bureaucrats were supposed to assign each able body a job. I did make implicit assumptions for the scenario on which I based my argument against wage floors, such as that the scenario business operates in a largely laissez faire environment.
                            That's the problem with the endless commine/austrian/keynesian nonsense arguments, you have fanatics who think X is either always good or always bad and they stick with it no matter what.
                            Good grief, is there a theory of economics that is not communist, Austrian, or Keynesian? Would you please be so kind as to be specific and discuss that? As for thinking that X is always good or always bad, I did imply that, sorry.

                            A problem that perhaps nobody is recognizing possibly except Darth Executor is that the world economy has to be viewed as a whole--you know, try to see the Big Picture. Either we have to make simplifying assumptions or our discussion have to be extremely complicated.

                            I think I may just bail out soon. I doubt I have the time to consider every recondite point.
                            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                            [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              A full-time burger flipper earning the federal minimum wage would only be earning ~$15,000/year, working 40 hours per week all 52 weeks of the year. We're not talking about part-time laborers making a living wage, we're talking about full-time employees making a living wage.
                              You just don't get it. It has nothing to do with hours worked, it's about how easily the employee can be replaced, and when you can take a typical low-information liberal and teach him to flip burgers in less than half-a-day, he is very easily replaced, so he doesn't get paid like he's irreplaceable.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                                Well, that's true, if you had in mind something like this: In the Soviet Union the bureaucrats were supposed to assign each able body a job. I did make implicit assumptions for the scenario on which I based my argument against wage floors, such as that the scenario business operates in a largely laissez faire environment.
                                Nobody operates in a largely laissez faire environment, nor is one desirable.

                                Good grief, is there a theory of economics that is not communist, Austrian, or Keynesian? Would you please be so kind as to be specific and discuss that? As for thinking that X is always good or always bad, I did imply that, sorry.

                                A problem that perhaps nobody is recognizing possibly except Darth Executor is that the world economy has to be viewed as a whole--you know, try to see the Big Picture. Either we have to make simplifying assumptions or our discussion have to be extremely complicated.

                                I think I may just bail out soon. I doubt I have the time to consider every recondite point.
                                The problem isn't with the inability to see the big picture, but with muddying the lines between economy, sociology and morality. Communists don't understand economics but have all sorts of sociological and moral proclamations to make. Keynesians and austrians think what is morally right just so happens to coincide perfectly with what is economically sound. Neither keynesians nor austrians understand human behavior in the slightest.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                180 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                417 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                87 responses
                                395 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Working...
                                X