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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    zactly.

    fm93 must live a truly miserable life, seeing injustice, victimization, and bigotry everywhere.
    I have found liberals generally to be the most unhappy people imaginable. The worst kind of prigs...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      That's COMPLETELY the point! And the label "obituary" is a misnomer. It is a news report, not an obituary. And as an aside, I find it rather disgusting that listing her accomplishments as a mother and wife before professional endeavors is something less than honorable.
      What? No, that's really not the point. She's famous first and foremost for being a brilliant rocket scientist. It's fine to include a note of her accomplishments as a mother and wife, but it shouldn't say that she was a homemaker "and ALSO a rocket scientist," as if the thing that made her famous enough to warrant a piece in the Times in the first place was an afterthought. It should say "She was a brilliant rocket scientist who was also beloved for being a wonderful mother and wife who expertly balanced her career with her family." And the issue is that if she had been a man, that's how it would've been written if it included any reference to family.
      Last edited by fm93; 03-13-2015, 10:04 AM.
      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        I have found liberals generally to be the most unhappy people imaginable. The worst kind of prigs...
        This coming from the conservative who posts a new thread complaining about alleged fascism in same-sex equality or revised language or Islamic relations every day.
        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by fm93 View Post
          What? No, that's really not the point. She's famous first and foremost for being a brilliant rocket scientist.
          Again, it's a NEWS REPORT. It was not her official obituary that was posted at the funeral home.


          It's fine to include a note of her accomplishments as a mother and wife, but it shouldn't say that she was a homemaker "and ALSO a rocket scientist," as if the thing that made her famous enough to warrant a piece in the Times in the first place was an afterthought.
          Why not? What makes one more important than another?

          It should say "She was a brilliant rocket scientist who was also beloved for being a wonderful mother and wife who expertly balanced her career with her family." And the issue is that if she had been a man, that's how it would've been written.
          And your ESP and sight into alternate universes where she was a man proves that, right? Again, I find it disgusting that you think her career was more valuable than her personal life, as if listing one before the other changed her worth as a human being. Simply disgusting.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            Again, it's a NEWS REPORT. It was not her official obituary that was posted at the funeral home.
            And this makes a significant difference...how, exactly?

            Why not? What makes one more important than another?
            Because that's not why they're eulogizing her. They didn't go "Wow, Yvonne Brill was such a great mother and wife! Let's write this piece for her in our paper!" They wrote about her to honor her as a scientist.

            And your ESP and sight into alternate universes where she was a man proves that, right?
            No, my reading of obituaries (or "news reports," since you seem to love that phrase so much ) of famous men who passed away finds that in virtually every instance, the men have the thing that they're famous for emphasized in the opening, just as we'd expect.

            Again, I find it disgusting that you think her career was more valuable than her personal life, as if listing one before the other changed her worth as a human being. Simply disgusting.
            What in the world? Where'd that come from? I don't think her career was more valuable than her personal life. I sure as heck don't think listing one before the other changes anything about her worth as a human being. It's just that, once again, if the Times writes a piece about her to honor her FOR HER SCIENTIFIC CAREER, it makes no sense to emphasize something that isn't her scientific career over the thing that's their main reason for writing the piece about her in the first place. It'd be weird if I hired a construction worker over to my house to fix my roof, but then when he arrived I had him fix my computer, wouldn't it? Even if he also knew how to fix computers, the fact that I called him over for a completely different reason would render the situation bizarre.

            If the Times really knew of her first as a wonderful mother and wife and for some reason decided to honor her in the paper primarily for that, then there'd be no problem with what they initially did.
            Last edited by fm93; 03-13-2015, 10:41 AM.
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by fm93 View Post
              What? No, that's really not the point. She's famous first and foremost for being a brilliant rocket scientist. It's fine to include a note of her accomplishments as a mother and wife, but it shouldn't say that she was a homemaker "and ALSO a rocket scientist," as if the thing that made her famous enough to warrant a piece in the Times in the first place was an afterthought. It should say "She was a brilliant rocket scientist who was also beloved for being a wonderful mother and wife who expertly balanced her career with her family." And the issue is that if she had been a man, that's how it would've been written if it included any reference to family.
              Obituaries are not resumes for crying out loud!

              They tend to speak well of the deceased, and what the person was like. If she was proud of her family life, it makes sense that is what her obituary would focus on. I for one would like to be remembered as the type of person I was and how I lived and loved, rather than a job description.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Obituaries are not resumes for crying out loud!
                So Bill the Cat insists that it's not an obituary, and you insist that it is. Interesting.

                They tend to speak well of the deceased, and what the person was like. If she was proud of her family life, it makes sense that is what her obituary would focus on.
                But in obituaries of famous men, we don't see this kind of opening in which the family life is emphasized first and the career sounds like an afterthought. It's just the opposite--the career that made them famous is emphasized first, and family life is either ignored or mentioned as an afterthought. Are you saying that no famous men were proud of their family lives? Additionally...

                I for one would like to be remembered as the type of person I was and how I lived and loved, rather than a job description.
                As would I. But the Times specifically chose to raise public awareness about her after thinking "Let's draw people's attention to this great scientist," not "Let's draw people's attention to this wonderful mother." So it's strange that they would emphasize her motherhood first. As I analogized earlier, if you were a construction worker who also happened to be good at fixing computers, I figure you'd nevertheless be confused if someone called you over specifically to fix a roof but then told you to fix a computer once you arrived.

                It'd be one thing if Brill or her family specifically asked the Times to emphasize the family aspect first, but the fact that the Times changed it later without clarifying the deceased's request indicates that there was no specific request.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                  This coming from the conservative who posts a new thread complaining about alleged fascism in same-sex equality or revised language or Islamic relations every day.
                  Of course, we have to expose the liberal mental disorder before it destroys us all. Self preservation is a good thing and remember - we are only responding to your attacks and insanity. We are the ones trying the preserve freedom.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Of course, we have to expose the liberal mental disorder before it destroys us all. Self preservation is a good thing and remember - we are only responding to your attacks and insanity. We are the ones trying the preserve freedom.
                    You seem so miserable.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                      You seem so miserable.
                      Really? You should have known me when I was politically liberal!
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Really? You should have known me when I was politically liberal!
                        That's hard to imagine.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                          And this makes a significant difference...how, exactly?
                          Because you are bitching about a SINGLE news report adding personal information and then calling it "sexist". Why not look at Joan Rivers' entry? Or perhaps reality star Diem Brown? Or maybe comedienne Marsha Strassman?

                          The fact is that this PARTICULAR article that you claim is "sexist" was celebrating the DUALITY of Yvonne Brill's life, which included her work AND home life, which was the reason she was awarded the "Diamond Superwoman" (SEXISM!!! SEXISM!!!!) award in 1980 by Harper’s Bazaar magazine and the DeBeers Corporation for returning to a successful career after starting a family.


                          Because that's not why they're eulogizing her. They didn't go "Wow, Yvonne Brill was such a great mother and wife! Let's write this piece for her in our paper!" They wrote about her to honor her as a scientist.
                          And almost the entirety of the article was about her scientific career and accomplishments. But, hey... don't let facts get in the way of a good victim mentality by proxy.


                          No, my reading of obituaries (or "news reports," since you seem to love that phrase so much ) of famous men who passed away finds that in virtually every instance, the men have the thing that they're famous for emphasized in the opening, just as we'd expect.
                          So what? My reading of famous WOMEN's obituaries shows the exact same thing - that in virtually every instance, the women have the thing that they're famous for emphasized in the opening. This one looked to try to emphasize her personal life first (again for which she won an award).


                          What in the world? Where'd that come from? I don't think her career was more valuable than her personal life. I sure as heck don't think listing one before the other changes anything about her worth as a human being. It's just that, once again, if the Times writes a piece about her to honor her FOR HER SCIENTIFIC CAREER, it makes no sense to emphasize something that isn't her scientific career over the thing that's their main reason for writing the piece about her in the first place. It'd be weird if I hired a construction worker over to my house to fix my roof, but then when he arrived I had him fix my computer, wouldn't it? Even if he also knew how to fix computers, the fact that I called him over for a completely different reason would render the situation bizarre.

                          If the Times really knew of her first as a wonderful mother and wife and for some reason decided to honor her in the paper primarily for that, then there'd be no problem with what they initially did.
                          What a joke. There was nothing wrong with the "obituary". No factual errors, just blatant snobbery by people with serious undergarment congregative issues. As a prime example of uber snobbery of the oft-offended crowd, the reaction from New Mexico freelance science writer Julie Rehmeyer says it all:

                          An additional problem with the article is mentioning the “Diamond Superwoman award” immediately after her National Medal of Technology and Innovation, as if the two awards were comparable."


                          Snobbery. Plain and simple. And just as I said, disgustingly denigrating her personal life as insignificant in the face of her professional career. As if her life would have somehow had far less meaning if she had not won the "more prestigious" award...
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            That's hard to imagine.
                            My political conversion came the same year as my conversion to Christianity (1990). Heck I voted against Reagan twice.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              My political conversion came the same year as my conversion to Christianity (1990). Heck I voted against Reagan twice.
                              Yeah, I believe you. I bet you've known some that are hard to believe how different they are now than they used to be.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                Yeah, I believe you. I bet you've known some that are hard to believe how different they are now than they used to be.

                                Yes...
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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