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You Sexist You!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
    You can call me a sexist if you really think I am one; it won't bother me. I'm actually almost laughing about this.

    My reason? I was raised to show respect to women, and to treat them differently than men. Nothing particularly groundbreaking. I am also willing to call good male friends of mine doofus, idiot, etc. I would be much more hesitant to call a lady friend any of those things.
    Exactly.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • #17
      I'm likely to hold the door for anybody who's right there, but if it's a female I'm more likely to stand there and wait.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Exactly.
        To me it looks like what should be considered good manners is being called "sexist".

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
          You can call me a sexist if you really think I am one; it won't bother me. I'm actually almost laughing about this.

          My reason? I was raised to show respect to women, and to treat them differently than men. Nothing particularly groundbreaking. I am also willing to call good male friends of mine doofus, idiot, etc. I would be much more hesitant to call a lady friend any of those things.
          Oh, okay. No, that doesn't seem sexist. Just treating women and men differently isn't a problem. Treating them unequally is a problem.

          Some men practically wax poetic about the need to "shower a lady with respect" and put on a show of being overbearingly courteous to literally every woman, but then often act rudely and disrespectfully towards other men in the same contexts. In instances like that, the clear implication is that if a man is respectful and courteous only towards women, that's not true equality, and that the apparent respect/courtesy is probably phony and condescending. That's a case of false chivalry.
          Last edited by fm93; 03-11-2015, 04:40 PM.
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I'm likely to hold the door for anybody who's right there, but if it's a female I'm more likely to stand there and wait.
            I tend to just hold it for anyone who's within 10-15 feet of me. Any further than that and I'm usually left there standing awkwardly propping a door.


            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            To me it looks like what should be considered good manners is being called "sexist".
            Nah, it's more an issue of who people show good manners toward. Wouldn't you agree that something's wrong if someone shows good manners only towards women but is a rude jerk towards everyone else?
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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            • #21
              Holding doors is nothing. Now you don't even have to be within arms length of a woman to rape her!

              http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com...n-are-rapists/
              Goshen College declares all male students who stare at women are rapists

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Holding doors is nothing. Now you don't even have to be within arms length of a woman to rape her!

                http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com...n-are-rapists/
                Goshen College declares all male students who stare at women are rapists
                For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                LOL how silly! It's almost like that time that religious carpenter guy said that ridiculous thing about adulterers:

                I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.




                The webpage was clearly making the straightforward point that fantasizing about or psychologically demonstrating coercive behavior is also inexcusable. The sentiment seems rather consistent with scripture.
                Last edited by fm93; 03-11-2015, 05:16 PM.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                  LOL how silly! It's almost like that time that religious carpenter guy said

                  I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
                  There's certainly a great deal you could say about lust, and you could also say that men shouldn't ogle women in general.

                  ...but yes, to say that a man staring at a woman is rape is in fact very silly.
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                    There's certainly a great deal you could say about lust, and you could also say that men shouldn't ogle women in general.

                    ...but yes, to say that a man staring at a woman is rape is in fact very silly.
                    But it clearly wasn't saying that the sort of behavior was substantially equivalent to actual, literal rape.

                    As in, it's clearly not saying that people who verbally harass or blatantly and unwantedly ogle women are actually committing a felony. Their point is that, just as the Pharisees were wrong to think that fantasizing about committing adultery was an acceptable substitute for actually committing adultery, harassing or making crude advances towards women when they clearly aren't consenting to such behavior is not an acceptable substitute for actually committing rape.
                    Last edited by fm93; 03-11-2015, 05:32 PM.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                      I tend to just hold it for anyone who's within 10-15 feet of me. Any further than that and I'm usually left there standing awkwardly propping a door.



                      Nah, it's more an issue of who people show good manners toward. Wouldn't you agree that something's wrong if someone shows good manners only towards women but is a rude jerk towards everyone else?
                      I can agree with that.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                        But it clearly wasn't saying that the sort of behavior was substantially equivalent to actual, literal rape.

                        As in, it's clearly not saying that people who verbally harass or blatantly and unwantedly ogle women are actually committing a felony. Their point is that, just as the Pharisees were wrong to think that fantasizing about committing adultery was an acceptable substitute for actually committing adultery, harassing or making crude advances towards women when they clearly aren't consenting to such behavior is not an acceptable substitute for actually committing rape.
                        two totally different situations. Rape is violence. You can't commit rape by staring at a woman.

                        Adultery is cheating. If you are lusting after a woman, thinking of committing adultery with her, then you have already set your mind to do it and might follow through. Jesus was making a point about motivations.

                        Sure a man could stare at a woman and consider raping her (or committing adultery), and that would be equivalent, but in most cases it is not even "staring" but just noticing a beautiful woman, or just looking at someone in general.

                        But feminists basically want to call everything "rape" in order to dramatize it for their own purposes. It's just ridiculous. Maybe they are jealous because men aren't holding doors open for them or looking at them as they pass by. Or they just hate men in general. who knows.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                          Nah, it's more an issue of who people show good manners toward. Wouldn't you agree that something's wrong if someone shows good manners only towards women but is a rude jerk towards everyone else?


                          Go ahead FM, please show that your opponents have advocated that men should be jerks to other men, while showing manners only towards woman. If you can't show that (and I bet you can't), you are attacking a pile of straw.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                            Meh, that sounds like a stretch. I doubt it'll go that far. I think by "benevolent sexism" they had something more like this in mind:


                            And there is something wrong with that because...

                            I personally would rather be known for being a good wife and mother first, before I'm known for my career.

                            Do you just assume all woman think and walk the same way and would rather be known for their career first?
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                              I can agree with that.
                              I'm thinking in particular of these jock-type people from high school who were usually arrogant, rude jerks toward people who weren't in their own social group but would put on this big show of charm and fake chivalry around attractive girls just so they could get the girls to sleep with them--and just so they could later brag about how many girls they'd slept with.
                              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                two totally different situations. Rape is violence. You can't commit rape by staring at a woman.
                                Correct. You also can't commit adultery by staring at a woman.

                                Adultery is cheating. If you are lusting after a woman, thinking of committing adultery with her, then you have already set your mind to do it and might follow through. Jesus was making a point about motivations.

                                Sure a man could stare at a woman and consider raping her (or committing adultery), and that would be equivalent, but in most cases it is not even "staring" but just noticing a beautiful woman, or just looking at someone in general.
                                Actually, what the Goshen quote specifically says is:

                                Psychological rape consists of verbal harassment, whistles, kissing noises, heavy breathing, sly comments or stares. These are all assaults on any woman’s sense of well-being.”

                                So by "psychological rape," Goshen is referring to far more than merely staring. If a man is verbally harassing, whistling, and making kissing noises at a woman and she clearly doesn't want that sort of behavior (especially since you by definition can't harass someone who's consenting to some behavior), he's making her highly uncomfortable, and maybe even threatened, understandably. At the very least, this hypothetical man would be acting in such a way that no one would be surprised if he eventually did follow through and actually rape a woman. After all, if a man has already decided that he'll disregard a woman's consent when it comes to behavior like wolf-whistling, kissing noises and sly comments, he's already crossed a line that actual rapists crossed--disregarding a woman's consent.

                                But feminists basically want to call everything "rape" in order to dramatize it for their own purposes. It's just ridiculous.
                                Well, no, because as I explained, they clearly aren't saying that verbally harassing, whistling and making kissing noises at an unconsenting woman is ACTUALLY rape. What Jesus describes as "committing adultery in your heart" could just as easily be called "psychological adultery," and when William Lane Craig offers an explanation for why God doesn't just make everyone believe in him by saying it would essentially constitute "divine rape," no one thinks Dr. Craig's literally saying that God would be raping unbelievers.

                                Maybe they are jealous because men aren't holding doors open for them or looking at them as they pass by. Or they just hate men in general. who knows.
                                Maybe that's not actually what the people at Goshen College were saying.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                                Comment

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