Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

No such thing as a USFG conspiracy--Lil P.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • No such thing as a USFG conspiracy--Lil P.

    Often Lil Pixie claims that I am a conspiracy theorist, as if she thinks my thinking is without due regard for any available fact, as if I invariably speculate fact-free.


    Would she deny what I believe to be a fact is that the USFG from around 1864 to 1890 pushed a policy of genocide against the Amerindians? That the "reservations" are in fact concentration camps similar to the Nazi ones? Were she living in 1886, working for the US Army, and knowing what it was doing to the Amerindians, would she continue to do her job for years?


    Sherman said, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." Lil apparently would have us believe that the USFG never has committed acts of conspiracy in its entire existence. Therefore Sherman committed all those genocide acts against the Amerindians all by his lonesome self. Not even President U.S. Grant was involved. Sherman did all of those things without Grant's knowledge. (Boy we sure had many presidents who didn't know what was going on. Remember Reagan's "plausible denial" policy in the Iran-contra scandal?)
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  • #2
    If it were done in the open, how is it a conspiracy?

    Comment


    • #3
      There have been conspiracies, by definition (i.e. Watergate was a criminal conspiracy). But very few of the outlandish ones have ever turned out to be true. Sooner or later, people talk. With, say, 9/11, with the sheer number of people it would have taken to pull it off, you would have thought somebody would have said something by now.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Every good conspiracy theorist has an axe to grind. What's yours?

        I know a guy who's convinced that Mossad took down the towers on 9/11, and even assassinated JFK. He doesn't like Jews much.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          If it were done in the open, how is it a conspiracy?
          Exactly. If it is done in the open then there is no conspiracy.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            There have been conspiracies, by definition (i.e. Watergate was a criminal conspiracy). But very few of the outlandish ones have ever turned out to be true. Sooner or later, people talk. With, say, 9/11, with the sheer number of people it would have taken to pull it off, you would have thought somebody would have said something by now.
            This argument is not a valid argument against government conspiracy. Insider whsitleblowers are faced with grave consequences for their actions (i.e. Manning and Snowden), and sometimes whistleblowers aren't taken seriously (i.e. William Binney about the NSA PRISM program prior to the Snowden revelation). So it's no wonder there is a powerful chilling effect against spilled secrets. There are also many examples in America's history of secrets that involved many people, sometimes tens of thousands, that weren't exposed for many years, sometimes decades, and in some cases by sheer accident. Lack of facts is as good of an argument it's going to get against an asserted government conspiracy. But then that can get tricky because "facts" can be subjective from one person to another.
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
              Often Lil Pixie claims that I am a conspiracy theorist, as if she thinks my thinking is without due regard for any available fact, as if I invariably speculate fact-free.


              Would she deny what I believe to be a fact is that the USFG from around 1864 to 1890 pushed a policy of genocide against the Amerindians? That the "reservations" are in fact concentration camps similar to the Nazi ones? Were she living in 1886, working for the US Army, and knowing what it was doing to the Amerindians, would she continue to do her job for years?


              Sherman said, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." Lil apparently would have us believe that the USFG never has committed acts of conspiracy in its entire existence. Therefore Sherman committed all those genocide acts against the Amerindians all by his lonesome self. Not even President U.S. Grant was involved. Sherman did all of those things without Grant's knowledge. (Boy we sure had many presidents who didn't know what was going on. Remember Reagan's "plausible denial" policy in the Iran-contra scandal?)
              You have a hard time with basic reading comprehension, don't you? First off, that isn't really a conspiracy since most people knew about it and it was a rather open policy of the 19th century. Second, they really were not like concentration camps similar to the Nazi ones. They were not the best places to be, but they were not designed to kill people by the millions either. These efforts were mostly focused on Indian groups that didn't go along with the whole forced relocation thing. Finally, I never ever said that the government has never ever committed any act of conspiracy in its entire existence. J Eager Hoover had quite a few secret files on quite a few groups and famous people in the 1950's and 60's. They also took an effort to bring down the KKK of the era. Could that be counted as a government conspiracy? Of course, here is the thing though, there is actual evidence to back up such things actually happening because the government is actually pretty bad at keeping secrets for very long. How much evidence has surfaced that JFK was killed by anybody else, by a lone gunman? None. How much evidence has come up that 9/11 was an inside job? None. See the problems here yet?
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                When I worked at Morton-Thiokol and saw Shuttle Challenger explode, there were conspiracy and cover-up theories regarding flawed o-ring design, and also a forced launch in abnormally cold conditions that would knowingly affect o-ring performance, for reasons of having the teacher in space so President Reagan boast about it in the State of the Union Address later that day. I don't know if the latter is true, but none of us could believe they were launching with icicles hanging off of everything; the whole thing was pretty suspicious.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  There have been conspiracies, by definition (i.e. Watergate was a criminal conspiracy). But very few of the outlandish ones have ever turned out to be true. Sooner or later, people talk. With, say, 9/11, with the sheer number of people it would have taken to pull it off, you would have thought somebody would have said something by now.
                  Clint Hill, a Secret Service agent assigned to protect Jackie Kennedy, did write a book that included details of the killing. There is by now a great number of books, though I concede that at least 99% are trash. Want me to add more? For example, the Connallys.
                  The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                  [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    Every good conspiracy theorist has an axe to grind. What's yours?
                    I'm a good conspiracy theorist? Well, anyway, I believe the USFG is rather evil and very bad for the world, yet people generally seem to think otherwise or not care. I try to change that attitude to loathing the USFG.

                    I know a guy who's convinced that Mossad took down the towers on 9/11, and even assassinated JFK. He doesn't like Jews much.
                    I think I discussed a book that went into the Mossad role in the JFK killing (in the thread before the crash) with a great many citations of sources of alleged facts. I am not able to verify 99% of those facts, but I do think that is a possibility. The Israeli were rather uneasy with JFK and angry he didn't let them have certain things. I do not want to tackle 9/11 now.
                    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      You have a hard time with ...
                      This being a call-out thread, it's headed for the padded room soon enough.

                      Remember, Pix, that it's not official until it hits three full pages. Good luck!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                        This being a call-out thread, it's headed for the padded room soon enough.

                        Remember, Pix, that it's not official until it hits three full pages. Good luck!
                        I will try. Although I am still curious where the whole 'no such thing as a USFG conspiracy' thing came from.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                          I'm a good conspiracy theorist? Well, anyway, I believe the USFG is rather evil and very bad for the world, yet people generally seem to think otherwise or not care. I try to change that attitude to loathing the USFG.
                          Are you seriously saying that most people, within the federal government, are rather evil and our government is worse for the world then most other governments or even companies are? Cigarette companies knew, years before it was announced that their products were responsible for cancer so why didn't they come forward and admit the truth and tried to cover it up? Lots of money was on the line, so naturally we are going to see some rather evil things done in the name of the almighty dollar. Perhaps the reality is that it isn't as easy as 'good' or 'evil'? Could it be possible that the government is neither good nor evil, but may have done good and evil things as well as have people within it that might use it to do good or evil things?

                          I think I discussed a book that went into the Mossad role in the JFK killing (in the thread before the crash) with a great many citations of sources of alleged facts. I am not able to verify 99% of those facts, but I do think that is a possibility. The Israeli were rather uneasy with JFK and angry he didn't let them have certain things. I do not want to tackle 9/11 now.
                          And are you seriously saying they killed him? Israel wasn't the power house it is today back in JFK's time Auggie. Also, was Johnson anymore pro Israel and did they know or did he tell them that he would support them? See the issues here yet? It is interesting that people always come forward with 'new information' with the JFK assassination because it almost seems many people can't accept that a lone gunman, with a high powered rifle, could take out a US president and have done it without anybody else telling him to do it. It seems almost as though people in powerful positions, need equally powerful forces at work to bring them down. What sort of logical sense does that make? Fame and power has nothing to do with how easy or hard somebody is to take out.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am the first to use "conspiracy" in this thread. Hence I have the authority to decide what the definition is. I believe this is a good one: A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime [I prefer the phrase evil act] at some time in the future. Note, nothing about secrecy or being out in the open. For example, a Presidential candidate proposes to jack up the income tax bracket on the rich from 50% to 99%. People vote for him. Whether he wins or not, that's a conspiracy if the tax rate at such a lofty level is evil.

                            Incidentally, Sparko and others should have asked me to specify what I mean by conspiracy first.

                            To be sure, for a conspiracy to succeed, in most cases, secrecy/deception/brain washing is necessary. An example is calling the Indian concentration camps "reservations."

                            I hope to respond to some of the posts here before today runs out.
                            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                            [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                              When I worked at Morton-Thiokol and saw Shuttle Challenger explode, there were conspiracy and cover-up theories regarding flawed o-ring design, and also a forced launch in abnormally cold conditions that would knowingly affect o-ring performance, for reasons of having the teacher in space so President Reagan boast about it in the State of the Union Address later that day. I don't know if the latter is true, but none of us could believe they were launching with icicles hanging off of everything; the whole thing was pretty suspicious.
                              Icicles would not have mattered if the equipment was designed to operate in such conditions. I was involved in test-firing a STANDARD Missile rocket motor (which used the exact same O-ring material) in similar conditions, and it failed in the same way.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Whateverman, Yesterday, 07:17 PM
                              3 responses
                              27 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post CivilDiscourse  
                              Started by Whateverman, Yesterday, 04:39 PM
                              1 response
                              19 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Maranatha  
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 03:30 PM
                              19 responses
                              107 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post CivilDiscourse  
                              Started by Whateverman, 10-20-2020, 08:11 PM
                              4 responses
                              43 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Bill the Cat  
                              Started by shunyadragon, 10-20-2020, 07:16 PM
                              28 responses
                              124 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Sparko
                              by Sparko
                               
                              Working...
                              X