Catholic publications call for end to capital punishment

[Paprika]

When a necessary evil is no longer necessary, it is simply an evil, and we can regard it as abhorrent.

You may choose to regard it as abhorrent. As before, that label is purely emotional and carries no [moral] epistemic weight; any suasion it achieves is based on the feels: "we should not do this which makes me feelbad".

Hence it serves as a concession to spirit of the age of emotivism: moral good is what makes me feel good, moral evil is what makes me feel bad.

[Spartacus]

It always amuses how liberals use changed attitudes towards an activity, usually due to social engineering and propaganda, and the resultant feels to claim that what has been done for centuries and millennia is 'abhorrent', as though an argument from feels is worth anything.

When a necessary evil is no longer necessary, it is simply an evil, and we can regard it as abhorrent.

[Paprika]

abhorrent

It always amuses how liberals use changed attitudes towards an activity, usually due to social engineering and propaganda, and the resultant feels to claim that what has been done for centuries and millennia is 'abhorrent', as though an argument from feels is worth anything.

[Spartacus]

The Catholic Church has, as far as I can tell, always been consistent in opposing abortions and suicide (assisted or not). The Catholic Church has been, until quite recently, pro-death penalty and pro-war. The reason why pro-life groups care so much about preserving unborn life is that the unborn have done absolutely nothing to merit death. Similarly, Christians in general tend to be against suicide because it is viewed as murder. Biblically, there has always been a distinction between murder (not sanctioned) and juridical execution (sanctioned - and in the Tanakh, mandated for certain crimes). So Christians can be consistent with their scriptures by being against abortion and suicide while accepting the validity of capital punishment and war.

I don't like war. I don't want war. However, some people do, and the choice becomes whether to accept subjugation or act in defense.

The stance on the death penalty is a prudential one: because we have the means to reliably prevent criminals from causing any further harm to society without killing them, we should rely on those means rather than taking a life. It is no longer necessary for the defense of the common good for the government to take the lives of criminals it has apprehended such that it is able to put them on trial, therefore it is no longer moral for them to claim that right.

The Catholic Church's historical stance on war is fairly ambiguous, and there's a long tradition of pacifism that has a number of notable modern proponents, but the magisterium these days also gives some credibility to just war theory.

[Spartacus]

The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see some other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.

Conservative Catholics, like the Evangelicals with whom they have been allies for a few decades, are at least somewhat less likely to oppose the death penalty. If you look into the comment boxes on the Register site, you'll see for yourself how some segments of their readership feel about it.

I am not personally acquainted with any pro-life organizations that do not offer resources to mothers and children after birth. The talking point you raise refers most directly to nominally anti-abortion (Republican) politicians who also favor austerity with respect to welfare, and to a certain extent, I can grant that point. Politicians, most particularly on the right, don't all take the implications of an anti-abortion stance to heart, but in my own experience, people on the ground are quite willing to give of their own time, talent, and treasure to support young women and their children.

[KingsGambit]

Perhaps because it's so ridiculously difficult to execute someone that the effect is largely muted.

The society under Vlad Tepes, on the other hand, was exceedingly virtuous due to the effect of the death penalty.

I think public executions would also be necessary for a full deterrent.

[One Bad Pig]

One could make a pro-life case for capital punishment if they were to demonstrate that it lowered murder rates. (However, it doesn't.)

Perhaps because it's so ridiculously difficult to execute someone that the effect is largely muted.

The society under Vlad Tepes, on the other hand, was exceedingly virtuous due to the effect of the death penalty.

[KingsGambit]

One could make a pro-life case for capital punishment if they were to demonstrate that it lowered murder rates. (However, it doesn't.) But I agree that the issues are very separate, even as somebody who likes to define "pro-life" far beyond just abortion. Even if one doesn't consider issues of guilt, the stakes are lower, too. There are maybe 50-100 executions a year in the US. The number of abortions is far higher.

[One Bad Pig]

The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see a lot of other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.

The Catholic Church has, as far as I can tell, always been consistent in opposing abortions and suicide (assisted or not). The Catholic Church has been, until quite recently, pro-death penalty and pro-war. The reason why pro-life groups care so much about preserving unborn life is that the unborn have done absolutely nothing to merit death. Similarly, Christians in general tend to be against suicide because it is viewed as murder. Biblically, there has always been a distinction between murder (not sanctioned) and juridical execution (sanctioned - and in the Tanakh, mandated for certain crimes). So Christians can be consistent with their scriptures by being against abortion and suicide while accepting the validity of capital punishment and war.

I don't like war. I don't want war. However, some people do, and the choice becomes whether to accept subjugation or act in defense.

[Yttrium]

This is a false idea put out by pro abortions advocates. Pro life groups do a great deal to help new mothers materially, and if it is desired will help with arranging an adoption. Please do not repeat these pro abort lies.

Good point. I didn't mean to sound like I was overgeneralizing. I'll change that to "some" instead of "a lot".

[Jedidiah]

I see a lot of other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth.

This is a false idea put out by pro abortions advocates. Pro life groups do a great deal to help new mothers materially, and if it is desired will help with arranging an adoption. Please do not repeat these pro abort lies.

The connection of the death penalty to the pro life agenda is exactly the reason I am anti abortion and not pro life.

[Yttrium]

What is most notable to me is that the National Catholic Register, which is generally regarded as a conservative publication, attached its name to this statement.

The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see some other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.

[Spartacus]

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news...ment-must-end/

We, the editors of four Catholic journals — America, National Catholic Register, National Catholic Reporter and Our Sunday Visitor — urge the readers of our diverse publications and the whole U.S. Catholic community and all people of faith to stand with us and say, “Capital punishment must end.”

The Catholic Church in this country has fought against the death penalty for decades. Pope St. John Paul II amended the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church to include a de facto prohibition against capital punishment (2263-2267). Last year, Pope Francis called on all Catholics “to fight ... for the abolition of the death penalty.” The practice is abhorrent and unnecessary. It is also insanely expensive, as court battles soak up resources better deployed in preventing crime in the first place and working toward restorative justice for those who commit less heinous crimes.

What is most notable to me is that the National Catholic Register, which is generally regarded as a conservative publication, attached its name to this statement.