Originally posted by Paprika
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Catholic publications call for end to capital punishment
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Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostWhich is still not emotivism. An appeal to emotion, or an attempt to provoke an emotional response from the reader, is not an emotivistic argument.
Please refrain from posting further in this thread until you've read and understood the opening chapters of After Virtue.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPunishment/deterrence - just like the judicial reaction to any other crime.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt also has a 100% success rate in "preventing the offending party from perpetrating further wrong".I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostTo suggest a second way of reading it, I'd like to bring in the surrounding verses:
God is here giving Noah and his progeny the right to eat animals, but also limiting that gift by demanding that they not consume the animal's lifeblood, which still belongs to God as all life does. The allowance of meat into their diets is balanced by a demand that they maintain a respect for the fact that God is the master of life. But human life is set a step above because of the divine image, and any man or beast that takes a human life will have to answer to God for it-- they will have to justify why they did what they did. As for the "my man shall his blood be shed," bit, it is possible to interpret that more as an assurance of divine justice rather than as a warrant for us to take on that duty ourselves. What I'm suggesting here is comparable to the interpretation within the Bible itself of the Assyrians as vehicles of God's justice against a wayward Israel.
God's promise to Cain is also worthy of at least momentary consideration: although Cain was himself the first murderer, God promised to avenge him sevenfold on anyone who killed Cain.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostYou're a worse idiot than you accuse Sparko of being, because I didn't say the editors were being emotivistic.
Incidentally, I have. Hence I continue.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostYou may have read it, but the way in which you invoke emotivism shows that you did not understand it. An appeal to emotion, even in analysis of a moral question, is not a concession to the spirit of the age of emotivism.
you're now on my ignore list regardless.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThe judicial reaction to crime can be termed entirely as collective self-defense and be just as effective. I grant punishment as an option, but one would need to show why other forms of punishment are somehow less valid. I personally see little difference in locking someone up for life and outright killing them. Even for a 20 year old sentenced to 50 years in prison, their life is effectively over. Deterrence is an oft-cited but not substantiated basis. It doesn't work like people think it does. There may have been a time when it did act as a deterrent, but without it being a public execution I don't see that it still acts as such (and the data seems to be against you there).
Which is pretty much "collective self-defense" in a nutshell.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostIf death row inmates could escape, then you would have proof that we don't actually have the capability to keep them from harming others without killing them. We can keep the most dangerous criminals away from the public indefinitely-- if we want to.
And today, in the modern West, we have technological means that make it obsolete as a means of protecting the public, and, without that main justification, the other possible social benefits just don't seem to outweigh the dignity of a human life, created by God, beloved by Him, and called to repentance by Him.
We should not kill a human being unless we have to.
We don't have to kill death row inmates. Therefore, we should not.
I think that's a valid syllogism.
What is revenge but enacting punishment for a wrong? I didn't mean to include the connotation of carrying out a grudge; I apologize for my lack of precision in word choice.
Question for any and all readers: is the American status quo r.e. capital punishment rational and sustainable? That is, does its current practice make sense, and is it, as it is now, the sort of thing which we would want to perpetuate in its current form?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Coming in late but for the record I'm both pro-life and anti-death penalty for entirely seperate reasons. There is nothing inconsistent in being pro-life and pro-capital punishment - that critcism is nonsensical."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostComing in late but for the record I'm both pro-life and anti-death penalty for entirely seperate reasons. There is nothing inconsistent in being pro-life and pro-capital punishment - that critcism is nonsensical."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPerhaps we can, perhaps we can't - of course, it's not cheap to keep people locked up with that much security either.
I think you're underestimating ancient peoples' abilities to securely lock people up.
Assertion.
Based on a false premise.
Revenge is a passion. Capital punishment is not.
The entire American civilization is not rational and sustainable in its current form.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostWe can do it on a bigger scale and with greater certainty than they ever could.
I am eagerly looking forward to your elaboration on this section of your post.
I think I already clarified sufficiently that I did not intend to include those connotations when I used the word "revenge". If I had used the word "vengeance" or "avenge," would you have found it less problematic?
That's a cop-out if ever I heard one, but your entire post is uncharacteristically brusque, so I'm assuming you either intend to revisit this all in greater detail later, or you're tired of my nonsense and taking your leave.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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