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Catholic publications call for end to capital punishment

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  • Catholic publications call for end to capital punishment

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news...ment-must-end/

    We, the editors of four Catholic journals — America, National Catholic Register, National Catholic Reporter and Our Sunday Visitor — urge the readers of our diverse publications and the whole U.S. Catholic community and all people of faith to stand with us and say, “Capital punishment must end.”

    The Catholic Church in this country has fought against the death penalty for decades. Pope St. John Paul II amended the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church to include a de facto prohibition against capital punishment (2263-2267). Last year, Pope Francis called on all Catholics “to fight ... for the abolition of the death penalty.” The practice is abhorrent and unnecessary. It is also insanely expensive, as court battles soak up resources better deployed in preventing crime in the first place and working toward restorative justice for those who commit less heinous crimes.
    What is most notable to me is that the National Catholic Register, which is generally regarded as a conservative publication, attached its name to this statement.
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
    What is most notable to me is that the National Catholic Register, which is generally regarded as a conservative publication, attached its name to this statement.
    The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see some other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.
    Last edited by Yttrium; 03-07-2015, 07:37 PM.
    Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
      I see a lot of other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth.
      This is a false idea put out by pro abortions advocates. Pro life groups do a great deal to help new mothers materially, and if it is desired will help with arranging an adoption. Please do not repeat these pro abort lies.

      The connection of the death penalty to the pro life agenda is exactly the reason I am anti abortion and not pro life.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        This is a false idea put out by pro abortions advocates. Pro life groups do a great deal to help new mothers materially, and if it is desired will help with arranging an adoption. Please do not repeat these pro abort lies.
        Good point. I didn't mean to sound like I was overgeneralizing. I'll change that to "some" instead of "a lot".
        Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
          The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see a lot of other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.
          The Catholic Church has, as far as I can tell, always been consistent in opposing abortions and suicide (assisted or not). The Catholic Church has been, until quite recently, pro-death penalty and pro-war. The reason why pro-life groups care so much about preserving unborn life is that the unborn have done absolutely nothing to merit death. Similarly, Christians in general tend to be against suicide because it is viewed as murder. Biblically, there has always been a distinction between murder (not sanctioned) and juridical execution (sanctioned - and in the Tanakh, mandated for certain crimes). So Christians can be consistent with their scriptures by being against abortion and suicide while accepting the validity of capital punishment and war.

          I don't like war. I don't want war. However, some people do, and the choice becomes whether to accept subjugation or act in defense.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #6
            One could make a pro-life case for capital punishment if they were to demonstrate that it lowered murder rates. (However, it doesn't.) But I agree that the issues are very separate, even as somebody who likes to define "pro-life" far beyond just abortion. Even if one doesn't consider issues of guilt, the stakes are lower, too. There are maybe 50-100 executions a year in the US. The number of abortions is far higher.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              One could make a pro-life case for capital punishment if they were to demonstrate that it lowered murder rates. (However, it doesn't.)
              Perhaps because it's so ridiculously difficult to execute someone that the effect is largely muted.

              The society under Vlad Tepes, on the other hand, was exceedingly virtuous due to the effect of the death penalty.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Perhaps because it's so ridiculously difficult to execute someone that the effect is largely muted.

                The society under Vlad Tepes, on the other hand, was exceedingly virtuous due to the effect of the death penalty.
                I think public executions would also be necessary for a full deterrent.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                  The Catholic Church is consistently pro-life, as far as I can tell. (Or perhaps you could correct me on that.) They're against abortions, death penalty, assisted suicides, and war. I respect the consistency. I see some other "pro-life" groups that only seem to care about unborn life, and not so much about life after birth. I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that the National Catholic Register would attach its name.
                  Conservative Catholics, like the Evangelicals with whom they have been allies for a few decades, are at least somewhat less likely to oppose the death penalty. If you look into the comment boxes on the Register site, you'll see for yourself how some segments of their readership feel about it.

                  I am not personally acquainted with any pro-life organizations that do not offer resources to mothers and children after birth. The talking point you raise refers most directly to nominally anti-abortion (Republican) politicians who also favor austerity with respect to welfare, and to a certain extent, I can grant that point. Politicians, most particularly on the right, don't all take the implications of an anti-abortion stance to heart, but in my own experience, people on the ground are quite willing to give of their own time, talent, and treasure to support young women and their children.
                  Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    The Catholic Church has, as far as I can tell, always been consistent in opposing abortions and suicide (assisted or not). The Catholic Church has been, until quite recently, pro-death penalty and pro-war. The reason why pro-life groups care so much about preserving unborn life is that the unborn have done absolutely nothing to merit death. Similarly, Christians in general tend to be against suicide because it is viewed as murder. Biblically, there has always been a distinction between murder (not sanctioned) and juridical execution (sanctioned - and in the Tanakh, mandated for certain crimes). So Christians can be consistent with their scriptures by being against abortion and suicide while accepting the validity of capital punishment and war.

                    I don't like war. I don't want war. However, some people do, and the choice becomes whether to accept subjugation or act in defense.
                    The stance on the death penalty is a prudential one: because we have the means to reliably prevent criminals from causing any further harm to society without killing them, we should rely on those means rather than taking a life. It is no longer necessary for the defense of the common good for the government to take the lives of criminals it has apprehended such that it is able to put them on trial, therefore it is no longer moral for them to claim that right.

                    The Catholic Church's historical stance on war is fairly ambiguous, and there's a long tradition of pacifism that has a number of notable modern proponents, but the magisterium these days also gives some credibility to just war theory.
                    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                      abhorrent
                      It always amuses how liberals use changed attitudes towards an activity, usually due to social engineering and propaganda, and the resultant feels to claim that what has been done for centuries and millennia is 'abhorrent', as though an argument from feels is worth anything.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                        It always amuses how liberals use changed attitudes towards an activity, usually due to social engineering and propaganda, and the resultant feels to claim that what has been done for centuries and millennia is 'abhorrent', as though an argument from feels is worth anything.
                        When a necessary evil is no longer necessary, it is simply an evil, and we can regard it as abhorrent.
                        Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                          When a necessary evil is no longer necessary, it is simply an evil, and we can regard it as abhorrent.
                          You may choose to regard it as abhorrent. As before, that label is purely emotional and carries no [moral] epistemic weight; any suasion it achieves is based on the feels: "we should not do this which makes me feelbad".

                          Hence it serves as a concession to spirit of the age of emotivism: moral good is what makes me feel good, moral evil is what makes me feel bad.
                          Last edited by Paprika; 03-08-2015, 01:07 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            You may choose to regard it as abhorrent. As before, that label is purely emotional and carries no [moral] epistemic weight; any suasion it achieves is based on the feels: "we should not do this which makes me feelbad".

                            Hence it serves as a concession to spirit of the age of emotivism: moral good is what makes me feel good, moral evil is what makes me feel bad.
                            You've picked out exactly one word from an excerpt of an article and treated it as if it's the entire argument of the editorial. If that were the only argument offered by the editorial, your point would be well taken. In fact, it's not even the only argument offered in the section I excerpted.

                            The Catholic Church's stance against the death penalty is rooted not in simple feelings, but in a particular understanding of human dignity stemming from the indelible imago dei. If anything, the people who support the death penalty because it's what they think the perpetrator deserves are leaning more heavily on their emotional reactions than in any well-developed notion of human dignity or of justice.

                            Emotivism is not exclusively a phenomenon of the right or of the left, and the fact that you have so far refused to examine any the rational arguments the editorial offered and instead dismissed it as an argument based solely on an emotional response suggests that, of all the participants in this thread, you're the one most influenced by emotivism.
                            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                              You've picked out exactly one word from an excerpt of an article and treated it as if it's the entire argument of the editorial.
                              It functions as one major argument. Careful readers will not that I have not used it in anyway to dismiss the anti-death penalty stance; I merely note it as a form of terrible argumentation that is part of the trend.

                              If that were the only argument offered by the editorial, your point would be well taken. In fact, it's not even the only argument offered in the section I excerpted...

                              Emotivism is not exclusively a phenomenon of the right or of the left, and the fact that you have so far refused to examine any the rational arguments the editorial offered and instead dismissed it as an argument based solely on an emotional response suggests that, of all the participants in this thread, you're the one most influenced by emotivism.
                              The other arguments, which you claim are rational don't interest me because I post in this thread not to argue on the issue of death penalty.

                              It is ironic and rather amusing that you accuse me of being emotivist given your defense of 'abhorrent', projecting your own flaws when your defense of that line of argument fails. Why indeed, some persons would consider it tu quoque.

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