Hands Up Don't Shoot!

[Jedidiah]

People kill for a lot of reasons. It doesn't mean they have mental problems. They might be embarrassed a secret gets out. They might do it for "love". They might be greedy. They might do it for political reasons. They might do it because they are simply evil. They might do it to protect someone else or themselves. They might do it by accident....

"Mental problems" are for the most part just an excuse. That is a way to let people avoid the responsibility for what they have done. True there are some real and meaningful mental problems, but they are far and away the exception.

[Sparko]

Likewise, if all one reads about and sees on TV from one's narrowly selected media sources are stories about angry black people sagging their pants and looting and acting aggressively, one could begin to believe that most or all black people are looting stores and behaving inexcusably, rather than a minority of them in the midst of a majority of peaceful protesters. Who knows, this could even make some people believe that violence or slander against black people is justified. Let's not act as if only one group of media is guilty of wrongly influencing public opinions and attitudes.

sheesh, are you TRYING to pick a fight? I agree with you. People can be influenced by what they read and see, especially in the Mainstream Media.

[fm93]

You said, "People don't kill people because of a news story. People kill people because of mental problems."

I responded that there are many reasons why people kill. It doesn't mean they have mental problems. And yes, some people could be influenced by news stories. If they believe the news stories and get angry at "racist cops" then they might go out and kill a cop. You are not a mind reader, PM. You can't say why or why not someone kills someone else, nor whether it means they are crazy or have "mental problems"

If all you read about and see on TV are stories about how fascist and racist cops are, you could begin to believe that most or all cops are stormtroopers. Whether you want to admit it or not, the MSM does influence public opinions and attitudes.

Likewise, if all one reads about and sees on TV from one's narrowly selected media sources are stories about angry black people sagging their pants and looting and acting aggressively, one could begin to believe that most or all black people are looting stores and behaving inexcusably, rather than a minority of them in the midst of a majority of peaceful protesters. Who knows, this could even make some people believe that violence or slander against black people is justified. Let's not act as if only one group of media is guilty of wrongly influencing public opinions and attitudes.

[Sparko]

Right, and the argument I was making that you quoted was that certain types of people are inclined to kill. Media like then news or comic books or novels won't cause a disinclined person to kill, so they cannot be blamed. The cause and blame rest with the murderer.

You said, "People don't kill people because of a news story. People kill people because of mental problems."

I responded that there are many reasons why people kill. It doesn't mean they have mental problems. And yes, some people could be influenced by news stories. If they believe the news stories and get angry at "racist cops" then they might go out and kill a cop. You are not a mind reader, PM. You can't say why or why not someone kills someone else, nor whether it means they are crazy or have "mental problems"

If all you read about and see on TV are stories about how fascist and racist cops are, you could begin to believe that most or all cops are stormtroopers. Whether you want to admit it or not, the MSM does influence public opinions and attitudes.

[Psychic Missile]

I never said anything about everyone killing in the same situation. People's motives for killing are their own. If I were in a jewelry store I would never consider robbing or killing someone to get rich. Some others would though. It doesn't mean they are crazy. Just greedy and evil.

Right, and the argument I was making that you quoted was that certain types of people are inclined to kill. Media like then news or comic books or novels won't cause a disinclined person to kill, so they cannot be blamed. The cause and blame rest with the murderer.

[Sparko]

Not everyone would kill in the same situation, so discounting the last two of your points, certain people can be said to be more inclined to kill.

I never said anything about everyone killing in the same situation. People's motives for killing are their own. If I were in a jewelry store I would never consider robbing or killing someone to get rich. Some others would though. It doesn't mean they are crazy. Just greedy and evil.

[Psychic Missile]

People kill for a lot of reasons. It doesn't mean they have mental problems. They might be embarrassed a secret gets out. They might do it for "love". They might be greedy. They might do it for political reasons. They might do it because they are simply evil. They might do it to protect someone else or themselves. They might do it by accident....

Not everyone would kill in the same situation, so discounting the last two of your points, certain people can be said to be more inclined to kill.

[Sparko]

People don't kill people because of a news story. People kill people because of mental problems.

People kill for a lot of reasons. It doesn't mean they have mental problems. They might be embarrassed a secret gets out. They might do it for "love". They might be greedy. They might do it for political reasons. They might do it because they are simply evil. They might do it to protect someone else or themselves. They might do it by accident....

[Psychic Missile]

This is me not caring...

Oh, they are! But those that stoked the fire hold a moral responsibility for the results of the fire too.

But he had no other reason to kill those two cops. His girlfriend, yes. that was pre-meditated. But the hysteria generated by the lie of "HUDS" gave him another target, and he is just one ember in that blaze of misplaced indignation.

He was mentally disturbed. That seems like a pretty big reason to me.

People don't kill people because of a news story. People kill people because of mental problems. Your attempt to pin blame down through your pet cause is transparent. You are no different from the hysterics who blamed comic books, rock music, and video games for violence. You're ignoring the one commonality to push your agenda.

[Mountain Man]

Some probably were, but Holder's report is a long way from actually proving it

Those emails that were sent and circulated by certain officers were undeniably racist. Therefore, it's undeniable that certain officers in the department were racist. Additionally, if video surveillance of an incident shows that a compliant black suspect was indeed being mistreated by an officer who used ECWs on him, then that's an instance in which an officer was unjustified. There's no getting around this--the Ferguson police department had some bad apples.

You know what would help? If you actually responded to my entire post instead cherry-picking part of a sentence out of context and acting like it's a summation of my entire argument. Here's what I said:

"Some probably were [racist], but Holder's report is a long way from actually proving it and offers zero grounds for suing the entire Ferguson police department."

If there were a few "bad apples" in the Ferguson PD then go after the bad apples, not the entire department. But again, this isn't about justice, it's about Holder trying to cement his "legacy".

[Bill the Cat]

I find your objections weak

This is me not caring...

and I still don't understand the idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions.

Oh, they are! But those that stoked the fire hold a moral responsibility for the results of the fire too.

Brinsley decided on his actions without being forced. It doesn't matter if the context was rock music, comic books, horror movies, video games, or novels. The commonality among people who kill isn't the media they consume, it's their mental issues.

But he had no other reason to kill those two cops. His girlfriend, yes. that was pre-meditated. But the hysteria generated by the lie of "HUDS" gave him another target, and he is just one ember in that blaze of misplaced indignation.

[Psychic Missile]

You're delusional. Re-enacting events in a book is nowhere near what happened with Brinsley. He was part of the larger hysteria that was stoked by the MSM's false story on the fabricated "Hands up don't shoot" frenzy. Fowles, King, and Salinger wrote fictional stories, not to race-bait, and certainly not to pour more fuel on a powder keg. Ford on the other hand was sued and settled out of court, but of note, nothing from The Dearborn Independent called for Jews to be killed. So, again, you are comparing apples and oranges.

I find your objections weak and I still don't understand the idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions. Brinsley decided on his actions without being forced. It doesn't matter if the context was rock music, comic books, horror movies, video games, or novels. The commonality among people who kill isn't the media they consume, it's their mental issues.

[Bill the Cat]

The MSM never asked for police officers to be murdered. Compare them to Fowles and King, who wrote about specific events that were reenacted. The MSM's characterization of police officers at its possible worst would pale in comparison to the characterization of the Jewish people in Ford's The International Jew.

The Media didn't force Brinsley to commit murder, just like Fowles, King, Salinger, and Ford didn't force the people they "inspired" to kill. I wouldn't have thought the idea that people are responsible for their own action would be controversial. I can only guess you make the connection you did because it suits your narrative rather than because it actually makes sense.

You're delusional. Re-enacting events in a book is nowhere near what happened with Brinsley. He was part of the larger hysteria that was stoked by the MSM's false story on the fabricated "Hands up don't shoot" frenzy. Fowles, King, and Salinger wrote fictional stories, not to race-bait, and certainly not to pour more fuel on a powder keg. Ford on the other hand was sued and settled out of court, but of note, nothing from The Dearborn Independent called for Jews to be killed. So, again, you are comparing apples and oranges.

[Sparko]

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[Psychic Missile]

No, that's NOT their job - that's what they've become. The have become prostitutes.

I couldn't help thinking about this.... THINK about this, PM -- are you conceding that the mainstream media's JOB is to get ratings? And that seems to suggest that "all is fair" in the ratings game? do you REALLY believe that?

And, quite honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if you DID believe that, because the media no longer does hard investigative reporting -- they DO, in fact, cater to the "yeah, I'll watch ANYTHING if there's blood and guts and trickery and deceit" crowd.

I think this reveals a lot about your worldview!

The MSM is a business, and a business's job is to make money. I actually don't watch any mainstream news media because I don't find them reliable. If the market decides that they want less sensationalism and less opinion, like me, the MSM will be forced to respond. Until then, they have no choice but to go where the majority demands.