Originally posted by Bill the Cat
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Hands Up Don't Shoot!
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Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostIt seems to me that non-violent protests in Ferguson were "right for the wrong reasons". That is, it was fine to protest a pattern of civil rights issues in the community, but they were rallying around the wrong case. It made me a bit sick to see all those "hands up, don't shoot" demonstrations. I would have been more supportive of the civil rights issues if people hadn't been focused on that one extremely flawed case.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThe real issue is the lie of "hands up, don't shoot". The motivations of the department are wholly inconsequential to that being a lie. The left made this lie a full on national phenomenon. Now, when the lie was exposed, the goal posts shift to "well it had the POTENTIAL to have happened given the climate in the town"...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostYou seem to have a lot of trouble getting your head around the idea that a cop can arrest a black man without legal justification and without being racist.
Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostOf course it's "problematic" It's obvious Ferguson whites and blacks don't like each other (and the black community in Ferguson is the chief instigator, but nobody wants to talk about that).
I didn't miss it. Without crime rates it's useless, except that it tells us one thing: if they stop blacks twice as often but blacks were only 26% less likely than the whites stopped to not having anything shows that the cops' instincts were actually pretty good.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYes, some were. That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black.
So, you don't know. It's OK - you can just say that.Last edited by fm93; 03-06-2015, 05:16 PM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostIt seems to me that non-violent protests in Ferguson were "right for the wrong reasons". That is, it was fine to protest a pattern of civil rights issues in the community, but they were rallying around the wrong case. It made me a bit sick to see all those "hands up, don't shoot" demonstrations. I would have been more supportive of the civil rights issues if people hadn't been focused on that one extremely flawed case.
I guess you could say the protestors kept sight of the forest but lost sight of a specific tree.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI didn't say that Wilson anyone out for racist purposes, so...what's your point?
Okay, I don't know the exact percentage. Just like I don't know how it's relevant to anything that I said in this thread, and am still patiently waiting for an explanation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHow bout making a cogent statement first.
Blacks have a HUGE problem within their own community, and are in FAR more danger from other blacks than from white policemen. Pinko commie liberals aren't nearly as concerned about dead blacks unless they can put a racial aspect on it. It's dishonest and hypocritical.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostSays the person who wrote "That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black."
I agree, but one of the issues being raised is that in the case of black people being killed by other black people, the police system has merely been incompetent in the sense that it hasn't been able to prevent those killings.
Whereas in the case of black people experiencing racism by policemen, the police system itself is harming those whom it's supposed to protect.
Children are far more likely to be bullied at school by classmates than by teachers, but if a child was being bullied by a teacher, that should also be alarming, because the teacher would be engaged in an utter betrayal of her role.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAnd I was speaking in the specific context of drug-related crimes.
Because fewer white people are from the backgrounds and conditions that tend to breed violent crimes.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt is both true and correct. You're just jealous.
Wow! You would blame the POLICE for the black on black crime?
Brown was NOT killed because he was black.
What does THAT have to do with the phoney "hands up" narrative?Last edited by fm93; 03-07-2015, 06:24 AM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd blacks are higher there too. Look at the national averages in my link.
It doesn't change the fact that blacks commit more crimes on average.
Besides, as the report has stated, there are several instances in which these arrests and checks were clearly wrong and unwarranted. You can't wave away a document that lists cases of wrongful police behavior by vaguely asserting "DUR WELL BLACKS JUST COMMIT MORE CRIMES ON AVERAGE THE COPS ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS BY ARRESTING INNOCENT PEOPLE WITHOUT WARRANTS AND USING ECWS ON PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T RESISTING AND CIRCULATING RACIST, DISPARAGING EMAILS ABOUT THE PEOPLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AND SERVE."Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostThe point is that most racial groups will have the highest murder and victimization rates internally. It's not the police's "fault" that such things happen, but they're put in the community to help prevent such crimes from occurring, or to at least seek out justice for those who were affected. But in the case of Ferguson, the police force seems to have engaged in racist behavior towards the black residents, and so after Brown was killed and some witnesses mistakenly reported that he was killed while surrendering, the townsfolk were primed to find such claims believable--if the people know that the police have engaged in racism towards them before, they're understandably more likely to believe a report that says a police officer killed someone out of racist motives. The black community consequently believes that they not only have to worry about violence within their own community, but also from the police force that's supposed to protect them. It's perceived not as the system failing them, but utterly betraying them, an additional burden that they have to face. Certain impenetrably arrogant and immature posters who have no apparent grasp of nuance will fail to recognize this, but the community's reasoning shouldn't be hard for others to understand.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostNo. The point is that "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lieLearn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYes, some were. That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black.
So, you don't know. It's OK - you can just say that.
Originally posted by square_peg View PostI'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.
For that matter, does any public version of the DOJ's report include attachments of all relevant documents to back up their interpretations? Because without access to complete copies of reports (CAD calls, incident reports, supplemental reports, notes, witness statements, etc.) then I'm not inclined to put too much stock in their interpretation. It's too easy to look at one incident with an alternate narrative and declare the officer's actions 'racist' when you aren't providing all the details. I'm sure there where racist emails, racist actions, and probably some racist officers at Ferguson PD (else the DOJ wouldn't have taken it this far). But I also doubt it's nearly as bad as they're making it out to be. As long as Eric Holder is involved, I hesitate to believe any 'conclusion' the agency has reached."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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