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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Depends on how you define "is"
    I know Sparko and Mountain Man are incapable of basic decency and maturity, but come on. I've been serious and straightforward in my posts to you. I'd really appreciate serious, straightforward responses to them.
    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by myth View Post
      I'm less concerned that it was a 'lie' (which I believe it was, as too any witnesses contradicted their own statements) than I am concerned with the fact that MSM perpetuated this untruthful narrative to bost their own ratings, not caring how it affects the social dynamics of the community involved or the liberty of the person(s) put on trial (think George Zimmeran, too). It was irresponsible, disgraceful journalism. I'm beginning to think more and more that MSM is the bane of our society's existence.
      I would agree that irresponsible, disgraceful journalism is one of the banes of our society's existence. Although based on how I've often seen people use the phrase "mainstream media," it seems that some people really mean "whichever media say things I disagree with." Politically speaking, both sides were certainly guilty of engaging in irresponsible, disgraceful journalism (such as the article in seer's OP, for instance).

      Edit: Also, from I what saw, "Black Lives Matter" seemed to be a much more common slogan than "Hands up, don't shoot."

      For that matter, does any public version of the DOJ's report include attachments of all relevant documents to back up their interpretations? Because without access to complete copies of reports (CAD calls, incident reports, supplemental reports, notes, witness statements, etc.) then I'm not inclined to put too much stock in their interpretation. It's too easy to look at one incident with an alternate narrative and declare the officer's actions 'racist' when you aren't providing all the details. I'm sure there where racist emails, racist actions, and probably some racist officers at Ferguson PD (else the DOJ wouldn't have taken it this far). But I also doubt it's nearly as bad as they're making it out to be. As long as Eric Holder is involved, I hesitate to believe any 'conclusion' the agency has reached.
      Not that I've seen, but in the case of the emails, those were undeniably racist, and as for some of the reported incidents, how exactly could one interpret them otherwise?

      And I hesitate to ask this, but seeing as I haven't paid much interest to the actions and quotes of most current politicians, what exactly has Eric Holder done or said that makes you distrustful of him?
      Last edited by fm93; 03-07-2015, 04:49 PM.
      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by myth View Post
        I think you got your names mixed up there, brother. Darren Wilson is white, Michael Brown was black.
        Yeah, thanks - you are correctomundo .... poor little Mikey.

        And that's the narrative that the MSM set up --- white racist cop kills innocent little black kid in cold blood.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
          I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken.
          Ah, perhaps that's why we've seen a parade of NFL players and political activists apologize for making a "rally cry" out of something that really didn't happen!

          Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.
          Hmmmm.... that's a good question... and possibly one for another thread. Are the liberal loonies in the media DELIBERATELY distorting the facts in cases such as this, or is it because they're just plain stupid, or inept, or lazy.....
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by square_peg View Post
            I would agree that irresponsible, disgraceful journalism is one of the banes of our society's existence. Although based on how I've often seen people use the phrase "mainstream media," it seems that some people really mean "whichever media say things I disagree with." Politically speaking, both sides were certainly guilty of engaging in irresponsible, disgraceful journalism (such as the article in seer's OP, for instance).

            Edit: Also, from I what saw, "Black Lives Matter" seemed to be a much more common slogan than "Hands up, don't shoot."


            Not that I've seen, but in the case of the emails, those were undeniably racist, and as for some of the reported incidents, how exactly could one interpret them otherwise?

            And I hesitate to ask this, but seeing as I haven't paid much interest to the actions and quotes of most current politicians, what exactly has Eric Holder done or said that makes you distrustful of him?
            As the highest-ranked representative of the law enforcement community in our country, Mr. Holder should behave in a professional manner befitting the authority of his office. Instead, he's found himself in contempt of congress, decided not to enforce certain active laws (I guess his oath of office doesn't mean much to him), and has frequently made a fool of himself by grand-standing on political issues. Lately he's made a habit of going to the scenes of crimes affecting African American communities and giving speeches highly suggestive that the 'villain' of the moment will be charged for federal hate crimes...but that never seems to pan out. It's unprofessional and deceptive of him to pander to the NAACP like he did, acting like he planned to have George Zimmerman charged when he already knew that the FBI had not found any evidence he was a racist.

            It is his job to enforce the law, yet he pretty much just does whatever he wants (no matter who - Congress included - objects). Instead of avoiding making prejudicial comments about potential suspects like any other modern, professional law enforcement or judicial official, he's stoked the flames of public dissent by jumping on the same bandwagon as MSM - because he's got his own political agenda to push.

            And a quick note on the MSM and political divide - as far as dislike and distrust of media, I'm equal opportunity. I have a bone to pick with my local newspaper, my local television stations, and several national outlets.
            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by myth View Post
              As the highest-ranked representative of the law enforcement community in our country, Mr. Holder should behave in a professional manner befitting the authority of his office. Instead, he's found himself in contempt of congress, decided not to enforce certain active laws (I guess his oath of office doesn't mean much to him), and has frequently made a fool of himself by grand-standing on political issues. Lately he's made a habit of going to the scenes of crimes affecting African American communities and giving speeches highly suggestive that the 'villain' of the moment will be charged for federal hate crimes...but that never seems to pan out. It's unprofessional and deceptive of him to pander to the NAACP like he did, acting like he planned to have George Zimmerman charged when he already knew that the FBI had not found any evidence he was a racist.

              It is his job to enforce the law, yet he pretty much just does whatever he wants (no matter who - Congress included - objects). Instead of avoiding making prejudicial comments about potential suspects like any other modern, professional law enforcement or judicial official, he's stoked the flames of public dissent by jumping on the same bandwagon as MSM - because he's got his own political agenda to push.

              And a quick note on the MSM and political divide - as far as dislike and distrust of media, I'm equal opportunity. I have a bone to pick with my local newspaper, my local television stations, and several national outlets.
              And unless the legislature grows some morals and honesty the next creep in the office will be just as bad if not worse.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                I know Sparko and Mountain Man are incapable of basic decency and maturity, but come on. I've been serious and straightforward in my posts to you. I'd really appreciate serious, straightforward responses to them.
                You have a theory and think it is "more likely". I have one that I think is "more likely". The fact remains that the MSM made this non-existent thing into a nationwide phenomenon, and still won't accept any of the blame for doing so.
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  You have a theory and think it is "more likely". I have one that I think is "more likely". The fact remains that the MSM made this non-existent thing into a nationwide phenomenon, and still won't accept any of the blame for doing so.
                  yeah
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    You have a theory and think it is "more likely". I have one that I think is "more likely". The fact remains that the MSM made this non-existent thing into a nationwide phenomenon, and still won't accept any of the blame for doing so.
                    That's the MSM's job: get more eyes watching. If you're waiting around for the scorpion to apologize for stinging the frog, you're going to be waiting a long time.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      That's the MSM's job: get more eyes watching. If you're waiting around for the scorpion to apologize for stinging the frog, you're going to be waiting a long time.
                      Tell that to Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu's families.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by square_pinhead View Post
                        As I've pointed out multiple times from the report, there are clear instances in which some of these arrests and citations of black people were NOT justified. Obviously not all police in the world are racist, but it seems clear that in this case, some officers in the department were.
                        Some probably were, but Holder's report is a long way from actually proving it and offers zero grounds for suing the entire Ferguson police department. But Holder doesn't care about the facts or what can be reasonably proven in a court of law. This is legacy building, pure and simple. He wants to be known as the Black Attorney General who taught The Man a lesson.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by square_pinhead View Post
                          I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.
                          Holder's report makes no mention of "mistaken" witnesses. On the contrary, it mentions eyewitnesses who were afraid to contradict the liberal narrative. And perhaps you're not aware that the "eyewitnesses" who were paraded around by the media shortly after the shooting weren't eyewitnesses at all. In Holder's own words:

                          "As detailed throughout this report, some of those accounts are inaccurate because they are inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence; some of those accounts are materially inconsistent with that witnessís own prior statements with no explanation, credible or otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time. Certain other witnesses who originally stated Brown had his hands up in surrender recanted their original accounts, admitting that they did not witness the shooting or parts of it, despite what they initially reported either to federal or local law enforcement or to the media. [...] Although some witnesses state that Brown held his hands up at shoulder level with his palms facing outward for a brief moment, these same witnesses describe Brown then dropping his hands and 'charging' at Wilson."
                          http://www.justice.gov/sites/default...hael_brown.pdf
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            Tell that to Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu's families.
                            Nobody was responsible for that murder except for Brinsley. It's foolish to claim otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                              Nobody was responsible for that murder except for Brinsley. It's foolish to claim otherwise.
                              You don' think the tensions were stoked by the media coverage of the Ferguson and NYC incidents? If not, I have a bridge to sell you...
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Some probably were, but Holder's report is a long way from actually proving it
                                Those emails that were sent and circulated by certain officers were undeniably racist. Therefore, it's undeniable that certain officers in the department were racist. Additionally, if video surveillance of an incident shows that a compliant black suspect was indeed being mistreated by an officer who used ECWs on him, then that's an instance in which an officer was unjustified. There's no getting around this--the Ferguson police department had some bad apples.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                                Comment

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