Hands Up Don't Shoot!

[Jedidiah]

As the highest-ranked representative of the law enforcement community in our country, Mr. Holder should behave in a professional manner befitting the authority of his office. Instead, he's found himself in contempt of congress, decided not to enforce certain active laws (I guess his oath of office doesn't mean much to him), and has frequently made a fool of himself by grand-standing on political issues. Lately he's made a habit of going to the scenes of crimes affecting African American communities and giving speeches highly suggestive that the 'villain' of the moment will be charged for federal hate crimes...but that never seems to pan out. It's unprofessional and deceptive of him to pander to the NAACP like he did, acting like he planned to have George Zimmerman charged when he already knew that the FBI had not found any evidence he was a racist.

It is his job to enforce the law, yet he pretty much just does whatever he wants (no matter who - Congress included - objects). Instead of avoiding making prejudicial comments about potential suspects like any other modern, professional law enforcement or judicial official, he's stoked the flames of public dissent by jumping on the same bandwagon as MSM - because he's got his own political agenda to push.

And a quick note on the MSM and political divide - as far as dislike and distrust of media, I'm equal opportunity. I have a bone to pick with my local newspaper, my local television stations, and several national outlets.

And unless the legislature grows some morals and honesty the next creep in the office will be just as bad if not worse.

[myth]

I would agree that irresponsible, disgraceful journalism is one of the banes of our society's existence. Although based on how I've often seen people use the phrase "mainstream media," it seems that some people really mean "whichever media say things I disagree with." Politically speaking, both sides were certainly guilty of engaging in irresponsible, disgraceful journalism (such as the article in seer's OP, for instance).

Edit: Also, from I what saw, "Black Lives Matter" seemed to be a much more common slogan than "Hands up, don't shoot."


Not that I've seen, but in the case of the emails, those were undeniably racist, and as for some of the reported incidents, how exactly could one interpret them otherwise?

And I hesitate to ask this, but seeing as I haven't paid much interest to the actions and quotes of most current politicians, what exactly has Eric Holder done or said that makes you distrustful of him?

As the highest-ranked representative of the law enforcement community in our country, Mr. Holder should behave in a professional manner befitting the authority of his office. Instead, he's found himself in contempt of congress, decided not to enforce certain active laws (I guess his oath of office doesn't mean much to him), and has frequently made a fool of himself by grand-standing on political issues. Lately he's made a habit of going to the scenes of crimes affecting African American communities and giving speeches highly suggestive that the 'villain' of the moment will be charged for federal hate crimes...but that never seems to pan out. It's unprofessional and deceptive of him to pander to the NAACP like he did, acting like he planned to have George Zimmerman charged when he already knew that the FBI had not found any evidence he was a racist.

It is his job to enforce the law, yet he pretty much just does whatever he wants (no matter who - Congress included - objects). Instead of avoiding making prejudicial comments about potential suspects like any other modern, professional law enforcement or judicial official, he's stoked the flames of public dissent by jumping on the same bandwagon as MSM - because he's got his own political agenda to push.

And a quick note on the MSM and political divide - as far as dislike and distrust of media, I'm equal opportunity. I have a bone to pick with my local newspaper, my local television stations, and several national outlets.

[Cow Poke]

I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken.

Ah, perhaps that's why we've seen a parade of NFL players and political activists apologize for making a "rally cry" out of something that really didn't happen!

Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.

Hmmmm.... that's a good question... and possibly one for another thread. Are the liberal loonies in the media DELIBERATELY distorting the facts in cases such as this, or is it because they're just plain stupid, or inept, or lazy.....

[Cow Poke]

I think you got your names mixed up there, brother. Darren Wilson is white, Michael Brown was black.

Yeah, thanks - you are correctomundo .... poor little Mikey.

And that's the narrative that the MSM set up --- white racist cop kills innocent little black kid in cold blood.

[fm93]

I'm less concerned that it was a 'lie' (which I believe it was, as too any witnesses contradicted their own statements) than I am concerned with the fact that MSM perpetuated this untruthful narrative to bost their own ratings, not caring how it affects the social dynamics of the community involved or the liberty of the person(s) put on trial (think George Zimmeran, too). It was irresponsible, disgraceful journalism. I'm beginning to think more and more that MSM is the bane of our society's existence.

I would agree that irresponsible, disgraceful journalism is one of the banes of our society's existence. Although based on how I've often seen people use the phrase "mainstream media," it seems that some people really mean "whichever media say things I disagree with." Politically speaking, both sides were certainly guilty of engaging in irresponsible, disgraceful journalism (such as the article in seer's OP, for instance).

Edit: Also, from I what saw, "Black Lives Matter" seemed to be a much more common slogan than "Hands up, don't shoot."

For that matter, does any public version of the DOJ's report include attachments of all relevant documents to back up their interpretations? Because without access to complete copies of reports (CAD calls, incident reports, supplemental reports, notes, witness statements, etc.) then I'm not inclined to put too much stock in their interpretation. It's too easy to look at one incident with an alternate narrative and declare the officer's actions 'racist' when you aren't providing all the details. I'm sure there where racist emails, racist actions, and probably some racist officers at Ferguson PD (else the DOJ wouldn't have taken it this far). But I also doubt it's nearly as bad as they're making it out to be. As long as Eric Holder is involved, I hesitate to believe any 'conclusion' the agency has reached.

Not that I've seen, but in the case of the emails, those were undeniably racist, and as for some of the reported incidents, how exactly could one interpret them otherwise?

And I hesitate to ask this, but seeing as I haven't paid much interest to the actions and quotes of most current politicians, what exactly has Eric Holder done or said that makes you distrustful of him?

[fm93]

Depends on how you define "is"

I know Sparko and Mountain Man are incapable of basic decency and maturity, but come on. I've been serious and straightforward in my posts to you. I'd really appreciate serious, straightforward responses to them.

[myth]

Yes, some were. That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black.



So, you don't know. It's OK - you can just say that.

I think you got your names mixed up there, brother. Darren Wilson is white, Michael Brown was black.

I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.

I'm less concerned that it was a 'lie' (which I believe it was, as too any witnesses contradicted their own statements) than I am concerned with the fact that MSM perpetuated this untruthful narrative to bost their own ratings, not caring how it affects the social dynamics of the community involved or the liberty of the person(s) put on trial (think George Zimmeran, too). It was irresponsible, disgraceful journalism. I'm beginning to think more and more that MSM is the bane of our society's existence.

For that matter, does any public version of the DOJ's report include attachments of all relevant documents to back up their interpretations? Because without access to complete copies of reports (CAD calls, incident reports, supplemental reports, notes, witness statements, etc.) then I'm not inclined to put too much stock in their interpretation. It's too easy to look at one incident with an alternate narrative and declare the officer's actions 'racist' when you aren't providing all the details. I'm sure there where racist emails, racist actions, and probably some racist officers at Ferguson PD (else the DOJ wouldn't have taken it this far). But I also doubt it's nearly as bad as they're making it out to be. As long as Eric Holder is involved, I hesitate to believe any 'conclusion' the agency has reached.

[Bill the Cat]

I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.

Depends on how you define "is"

[fm93]

No. The point is that "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie

I'm really not sure why you and some others are so insistent on calling it a lie, rather than the more likely scenario that some witnesses were simply mistaken. Progress is impossible if both sides keep accusing the other of deliberate conspiracy.

[Bill the Cat]

The point is that most racial groups will have the highest murder and victimization rates internally. It's not the police's "fault" that such things happen, but they're put in the community to help prevent such crimes from occurring, or to at least seek out justice for those who were affected. But in the case of Ferguson, the police force seems to have engaged in racist behavior towards the black residents, and so after Brown was killed and some witnesses mistakenly reported that he was killed while surrendering, the townsfolk were primed to find such claims believable--if the people know that the police have engaged in racism towards them before, they're understandably more likely to believe a report that says a police officer killed someone out of racist motives. The black community consequently believes that they not only have to worry about violence within their own community, but also from the police force that's supposed to protect them. It's perceived not as the system failing them, but utterly betraying them, an additional burden that they have to face. Certain impenetrably arrogant and immature posters who have no apparent grasp of nuance will fail to recognize this, but the community's reasoning shouldn't be hard for others to understand.

No. The point is that "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie that the liberals uncritically used to ignite a national protest. The left perpetuated a lie and now they are trying to shift the goalpost away from their perpetuation of a lie to something else in hopes that no one notices that they got caught with no clothes.

[fm93]

And blacks are higher there too. Look at the national averages in my link.

...But...they aren't. Not if they're actually possessing contraband at a lower rate. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.

It doesn't change the fact that blacks commit more crimes on average.

It does change something, in a sense, because it points out the importance of keeping context in mind, rather than dismissively sitting back and subtly implying that a different racial group than your own is just inherently more likely to commit crimes.

Besides, as the report has stated, there are several instances in which these arrests and checks were clearly wrong and unwarranted. You can't wave away a document that lists cases of wrongful police behavior by vaguely asserting "DUR WELL BLACKS JUST COMMIT MORE CRIMES ON AVERAGE THE COPS ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS BY ARRESTING INNOCENT PEOPLE WITHOUT WARRANTS AND USING ECWS ON PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T RESISTING AND CIRCULATING RACIST, DISPARAGING EMAILS ABOUT THE PEOPLE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AND SERVE."

[fm93]

It is both true and correct. You're just jealous.



Wow! You would blame the POLICE for the black on black crime?



Brown was NOT killed because he was black.



What does THAT have to do with the phoney "hands up" narrative?

The point is that most racial groups will have the highest murder and victimization rates internally. It's not the police's "fault" that such things happen, but they're put in the community to help prevent such crimes from occurring, or to at least seek out justice for those who were affected. But in the case of Ferguson, the police force seems to have engaged in racist behavior towards the black residents, and so after Brown was killed and some witnesses mistakenly reported that he was killed while surrendering, the townsfolk were primed to find such claims believable--if the people know that the police have engaged in racism towards them before, they're understandably more likely to believe a report that says a police officer killed someone out of racist motives. The black community consequently believes that they not only have to worry about violence within their own community, but also from the police force that's supposed to protect them. It's perceived not as the system failing them, but utterly betraying them, an additional burden that they have to face. Certain impenetrably arrogant and immature posters who have no apparent grasp of nuance will fail to recognize this, but the community's reasoning shouldn't be hard for others to understand.

[seer]

And I was speaking in the specific context of drug-related crimes.

And blacks are higher there too. Look at the national averages in my link.

Because fewer white people are from the backgrounds and conditions that tend to breed violent crimes.

It doesn't change the fact that blacks commit more crimes on average.

[Cow Poke]

Says the person who wrote "That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black."

It is both true and correct. You're just jealous.

I agree, but one of the issues being raised is that in the case of black people being killed by other black people, the police system has merely been incompetent in the sense that it hasn't been able to prevent those killings.

Wow! You would blame the POLICE for the black on black crime?

Whereas in the case of black people experiencing racism by policemen, the police system itself is harming those whom it's supposed to protect.

Brown was NOT killed because he was black.

Children are far more likely to be bullied at school by classmates than by teachers, but if a child was being bullied by a teacher, that should also be alarming, because the teacher would be engaged in an utter betrayal of her role.

What does THAT have to do with the phoney "hands up" narrative?

[fm93]

How bout making a cogent statement first.

Says the person who wrote "That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black."

Blacks have a HUGE problem within their own community, and are in FAR more danger from other blacks than from white policemen. Pinko commie liberals aren't nearly as concerned about dead blacks unless they can put a racial aspect on it. It's dishonest and hypocritical.

I agree, but one of the issues being raised is that in the case of black people being killed by other black people, the police system has merely been incompetent in the sense that it hasn't been able to prevent those killings. Whereas in the case of black people experiencing racism by policemen, the police system itself is harming those whom it's supposed to protect. Children are far more likely to be bullied at school by classmates than by teachers, but if a child was being bullied by a teacher, that should also be alarming, because the teacher would be engaged in an utter betrayal of her role.