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Hands Up Don't Shoot!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by square_pinhead View Post
    When police arrest someone whom they have no reason to arrest and he turns out to be innocent, and when police use ECWs on someone who didn't act aggressively (both from the Ferguson report that I cited), it should be clear that such arrests and citations were not justified.
    No doubt isolated instances cherrypicked from the data.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      Right, I forgot how easy it is for you to go into a seizure.
      These policemen heavily insult and mock the intelligence, moral character and human worth of the very community whom they're supposed to serve and protect. You don't find anything problematic about that?

      It's not elsewhere, it's in the part you quoted and it has nothing to do with what I said was missing (namely, crime rates, and no, rate of found contraband is not the same thing).
      Oh, right. But then it appears that you missed this line directly before that:
      African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated


      And I'm not sure what you mean by the latter part. Isn't possessing contraband a crime? If more black people are checked for contraband but are found to have it at a lower percentage, that implies that black people are less likely to commit that crime. Unless it's merely a few black people being checked over and over again, but that's rather implausible.

      Not really. Why should it? In and of itself it doesn't mean anything.
      Are you confident that that sort of treatment is administered at similar rates to non-black people?
      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
        Uh...no. That's why, in the post that you yourself quoted, I cite the report that black people do not, in fact, commit more crimes percentage-wise.
        No, I'm speaking generally. And yes blacks do commit more crimes. Do you see drive by shootings in white neighborhoods?

        For instance :Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, whites commit 69.2% of the crimes, and blacks 28.4%. Whites are 72.4% of the population and blacks 12.6%. So percentage wise blacks commit more murders and manslaughter.


        http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ables/table-43
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          And if you weren't such a dull witted moron, maybe you would have realized that not a single credible witness supported the "Hands up, don't shoot" narrative.
          Except that you didn't provide anything saying "not a single credible witness" supported the narrative. You just said that some of the witnesses who were found to be credible contradicted the narrative. That doesn't mean that literally zero witnesses who thought he might've been surrendering were found to be credible. And even if that was the case, the point was that some of those witnesses were probably genuinely mistaken, not that literally all of them conspired to lie.
          Last edited by fm93; 03-06-2015, 04:18 PM.
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            No, I'm speaking generally. And yes blacks do commit more crimes. Do you see drive by shootings in white neighborhoods?

            For instance :Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, whites commit 69.2% of the crimes, and blacks 28.4%. Whites are 72.4% of the population and blacks 12.6%. So percentage wise blacks commit more murders and manslaughter.

            http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ables/table-43
            You know better than to bring facts to this debate. This is Eric Holder's legacy we're talking about. After failing to make anything of his trumped-up investigation against Officer Darren Wilson, he owed the people of Ferguson, so did any of us really expect his report to reach any other conclusion? It's hard to make a case against an innocent individual. Much easier to manipulate the data to condemn an entire police force.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Exactly. They completely ingore the question of whether or not the arrests and citations are justified.
              Yes, if more crimes are committed by blacks per capita (as I have proven multiple times from the FBI UCR website), then the police are NOT doing their jobs if they do NOT arrest or stop more blacks than whites.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by square_pinhead View Post
                Except that you didn't provide anything saying "not a single credible witness" supported the narrative. You just said that some of the witnesses who were found to be credible contradicted the narrative. That doesn't mean that literally zero witnesses who thought he might've been surrendering were found to be credible. And even if that was the case, the point was that some of those witnesses were probably genuinely mistaken, not that literally all of them conspired to lie.
                It's hilarious watching you twist yourself into knots like this.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  No, I'm speaking generally.
                  And I was speaking in the specific context of drug-related crimes.

                  And yes blacks do commit more crimes. Do you see drive by shootings in white neighborhoods?

                  For instance :Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, whites commit 69.2% of the crimes, and blacks 28.4%. Whites are 72.4% of the population and blacks 12.6%. So percentage wise blacks commit more murders and manslaughter.
                  Because fewer white people are from the backgrounds and conditions that tend to breed violent crimes.
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    It's hilarious watching you twist yourself into knots like this.
                    Repeating what's been said all along (that it's far more probable that some witnesses were mistaken, rather than that they all conspired to lie) = twisting into knots. Bizarre logic, but okay.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                      Because fewer white people are from the backgrounds and conditions that tend to breed violent crimes.
                      And, do you have any idea what percentage of blacks who are murdered are victims of other blacks? Or other violent crimes?
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Yes, if more crimes are committed by blacks per capita (as I have proven multiple times from the FBI UCR website), then the police are NOT doing their jobs if they do NOT arrest or stop more blacks than whites.


                        As I've pointed out multiple times from the report, there are clear instances in which some of these arrests and citations of black people were NOT justified. Obviously not all police in the world are racist, but it seems clear that in this case, some officers in the department were.


                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        And, do you have any idea what percentage of blacks who are murdered are victims of other blacks? Or other violent crimes?
                        Probably a high percentage, but 1) that applies to murders within all races, and 2) what does that have to do with anything?
                        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by square_peg View Post


                          As I've pointed out multiple times from the report, there are clear instances in which some of these arrests and citations of black people were NOT justified. Obviously not all police in the world are racist, but it seems clear that in this case, some officers in the department were.
                          You seem to have a lot of trouble getting your head around the idea that a cop can arrest a black man without legal justification and without being racist.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                            These policemen heavily insult and mock the intelligence, moral character and human worth of the very community whom they're supposed to serve and protect. You don't find anything problematic about that?
                            Of course it's "problematic" It's obvious Ferguson whites and blacks don't like each other (and the black community in Ferguson is the chief instigator, but nobody wants to talk about that). The emails are nowhere near "horrifying" though. They're trivial.

                            Oh, right. But then it appears that you missed this line directly before that:
                            African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated
                            I didn't miss it. Without crime rates it's useless, except that it tells us one thing: if they stop blacks twice as often but blacks were only 26% less likely than the whites stopped to not having anything shows that the cops' instincts were actually pretty good.

                            Also:

                            The racial makeup of the city was 67.4% African American, 29.3% White. There's more than twice as many blacks, so they really should be stopping more than twice as many blacks. It seems to me that they racially profiled... whites. Of course I don't accept the retarded methodology where crime rates are completely ignored, but under the typical liberal methodology all they've really proven is what I've been saying all along, which is that cops tend to go slightly easier on blacks, probably due to fears of being called racist.

                            And I'm not sure what you mean by the latter part. Isn't possessing contraband a crime? If more black people are checked for contraband but are found to have it at a lower percentage, that implies that black people are less likely to commit that crime. Unless it's merely a few black people being checked over and over again, but that's rather implausible.
                            No, it doesn't mean that. Quite the opposite (as I explained above).

                            Are you confident that that sort of treatment is administered at similar rates to non-black people?
                            I don't know, but [s]data[/s] select anecdotes from Eric "my people" Holder isn't gonna sway me.
                            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by square_peg View Post


                              As I've pointed out multiple times from the report, there are clear instances in which some of these arrests and citations of black people were NOT justified. Obviously not all police in the world are racist, but it seems clear that in this case, some officers in the department were.
                              Yes, some were. That does NOT mean that Wilson singled out poor little Darren just because he was black.

                              Probably a high percentage, but 1) that applies to murders within all races, and 2) what does that have to do with anything?
                              So, you don't know. It's OK - you can just say that.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The real issue is the lie of "hands up, don't shoot". The motivations of the department are wholly inconsequential to that being a lie. The left made this lie a full on national phenomenon. Now, when the lie was exposed, the goal posts shift to "well it had the POTENTIAL to have happened given the climate in the town"...
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                Stephen R. Donaldson

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