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Hands Up Don't Shoot!

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  • Hands Up Don't Shoot!

    Was all BS!

    According to the report, “there are several individuals who have stated that Brown held his hands up in an unambiguous sign of surrender prior to Wilson shooting him dead [but] their accounts do not support a prosecution of Wilson.”

    “As detailed throughout this report, some of those accounts are inaccurate because they are inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence; some of those accounts are materially inconsistent with that witness’s own prior statements with no explanation, credible for otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time. Certain other witnesses who originally stated Brown had his hands up in surrender recanted their original accounts, admitting that they did not witness the shooting or parts of it, despite what they initially reported either to federal or local law enforcement or to the media. Prosecutors did not rely on those accounts when making a prosecutive decision,” said the report.

    The report also admitted that the police officer’s description of the incident was confirmed by witnesses.
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/04/ho...aim-was-bogus/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    That's it!

    Drag JimL in here and WHACK that little tudball's hiney!!!!

    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    The heart of the matter is whether or not Brown was surrendering when he was shot dead. The witnesses say that he was. Wilson on the other hand didn't file a report, and the County investigators have not released any details. There is only one reason for that, and that reason is a cover-up so that they can counteract any incriminating evidence that might emerge in the interim.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Whaddya wanna bet the leftist idiots shrug this off and STILL carry on the "hands up" idiocy?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Are people still actually saying this?
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Not really. Wilson did acknowledge that Brown held his hands up at some point early in the confrontation, so it's understandable that in the heat of the moment, some witnesses incorrectly remembered it as hands held in surrender rather than whatever it was for. So it's not "ALL bs." You act as if the citizenry all conspired to create a movement out of whole cloth, when the truth, as is often the case, is more complex and messy than that. Sometimes people can be genuinely mistaken. People on both sides.
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by square_peg View Post
            Not really. Wilson did acknowledge that Brown held his hands up at some point early in the confrontation, so it's understandable that in the heat of the moment, some witnesses incorrectly remembered it as hands held in surrender rather than whatever it was for. So it's not "ALL bs." You act as if the citizenry all conspired to create a movement out of whole cloth, when the truth, as is often the case, is more complex and messy than that. Sometimes people can be genuinely mistaken. People on both sides.
            It's not a conspiracy, just a cultural imperative to back him up because he's black. Note that the black witnesses who supported Wilson's account did not go public with it, and for good reason. The social backlash would have been enormous.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
              Not really.
              Weren't you one of the ones fervently arguing, right along side Jimmy, that Brown was surrendering?
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Weren't you one of the ones fervently arguing, right along side Jimmy, that Brown was surrendering?
                No. I never argued that.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                  No. I never argued that.
                  OK... I misrembercated. Sorry.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                    Wilson did acknowledge that Brown held his hands up at some point early in the confrontation....
                    Several of the reports, drowned out by the hysteria, said that Brown raised his hands in a mock surrender, while taunting Wilson to shoot him.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Several of the reports, drowned out by the hysteria, said that Brown raised his hands in a mock surrender, while taunting Wilson to shoot him.
                      In which case it's even more understandable how the idea that Brown was surrendering came to be, isn't it?

                      The article that seer presents in the OP may have presented an accurate statement, but it's woefully one-sided in its coverage. For one thing, the Department of Justice also conducted an investigation in which the DOJ found that there were apparently persistent patterns and accounts of horrifying racist behavior on the part of the Ferguson police department--which the Daily Caller neglects to mention. (The report may be found here.) This includes several emails forwarded among police officers:

                      November 2008: An e-mail said President Obama would not be president for very long because “what black man holds a steady job for four years.”
                      March 2010: An e-mail mocked African Americans through a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: “I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!”
                      April 2011: An e-mail depicted Obama as a chimpanzee.
                      May 2011: An e-mail said: “An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, ‘Crimestoppers.’”
                      June 2011: An e-mail described a man seeking to obtain “welfare” for his dogs because they are “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who their Daddies are.”
                      October 2011: An e-mail included a photo of a group of bare-chested women dancing, seemingly in Africa, with the caption, “Michelle Obama’s High School Reunion.”


                      Along with some concerning statistics:

                      Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops, 90% of citations, and 93% of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67% of Ferguson's population. African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. From 2012 to 2014, FPD issued four or more citations to African Americans on 73 occasions, but issued four or more citations to non-African Americans only twice. FPD appears to bring certain offenses almost exclusively against African Americans. For example, from 2011 to 2013, African Americans accounted for 95% of Manner of Walking in Roadway chargers, and 94% of all Failure to Comply charges. Notably, with respect to speeding charges brought by FPD, the evidence shows not only that African Americans are represented at disproportionately high rates overall, but also that the disparate impact of FPD's enforcement practices on African Americans is 48% larger when citations are issued not on the basis of radar or laser, but by some other method, such as the officer's own visual assessment.

                      These disparities are also present in FPD's use of force. Nearly 90% of documented force used by FPD officers are used against African Americans. In every canine bite incident for which racial information is available, the person bitter was African American.

                      Municipal court practices likewise cause disproportionate harm to African Americans. African Americans are 68% less likely than others to have their cases dismissed by the court, and are more likely to have their cases last longer and result in more required court encounters. African Americans are at least 50% more likely to have their cases lead to an arrest warrant, and accounted for 92% of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued by the Ferguson Municipal Court in 2013. Available data show that, of those actually arrested by FPD only because of an outstanding municipal warrant, 96% are African American. (pg 4-5)


                      And then there are these deeply disturbing accounts:

                      In July 2013 police encountered an African-American man in a parking lot while on their way to arrest someone else at an apartment building. Police knew that the encountered man was not the person they had come to arrest. Nonetheless, without even reasonable suspicion, they handcuffed the man, placed him in the back of a patrol car, and ran his record. It turned out he was the intended arrestee's landlord. (pg 17)

                      In January 2013, a patrol sergeant stopped an African-American man after he saw the man talk to an individual in a truck and then walk away. The sergeant detained the man, although he did not articulate any reasonable suspicion that criminal activity was afoot. When the man declined to answer questions or submit to a frisk--which the sergeant sought to execute despite articulating no reason to believe the man was armed--the sergeant grabbed the man by the belt, drew his ECW, and ordered the man to comply. The man crossed his arms and objected that he had not done anything wrong. Video captured by the ECW's built-in camera shows that the man made no aggressive movement toward the officer. The sergeant fired the ECW, applying a five-second cycle of electricity and causing the man to fall to the ground. The sergeant almost immediately applied the ECW again, which he later justified in his report by claiming that the man tried to stand up. The video makes clear, however, that the man never tried to stand--he only writed in pain on the ground. The video also shows that the sergeant applied the ECW nearly continuously for 20 seconds, longer than represented in his report. (pg 37)

                      We spoke with one African-American man who, in August 2014, had an argument in his apartment to which FPD officers responded, and was immediately pulled out of his apartment by force. After telling the officer, "you don't have a reason to lock me up," he claims the officer responded: "N*****, I can find something to lock you up on." When the man responded, "good luck with that," the officer slammed his face into the wall, and after the man fell to the floor, the officer said, "don't pass out [censored] because I'm not carrying you to my car." (pg 76)


                      So, it seems that the "hands up, don't shoot" movement may have been based on erroneous eyewitness testimony, but I believe that we do ourselves and others a disservice by focusing only on one side. If we want to make sure something like Ferguson never happens again, both sides need to be evaluated, and as I said earlier, the truth appears to be complex and messy. If this report is accurate, it certainly sheds light on the depth of the racial tension and anger in the town, and makes it much more understandable as to why so many citizens were quick to believe that Brown was indeed shot while surrendering. It would also hint at an answer to a question that's long baffled me--assuming the veracity of Wilson's testimony, what possessed an 18-year old to so angrily disrespect and charge a police officer.
                      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        In which case it's even more understandable how the idea that Brown was surrendering came to be, isn't it?

                        The article that seer presents in the OP may have presented an accurate statement, but it's woefully one-sided in its coverage. For one thing, the Department of Justice also conducted an investigation in which the DOJ found that there were apparently persistent patterns and accounts of horrifying racist behavior on the part of the Ferguson police department--which the Daily Caller neglects to mention. (The report may be found here.) This includes several emails forwarded among police officers:

                        November 2008: An e-mail said President Obama would not be president for very long because “what black man holds a steady job for four years.”
                        March 2010: An e-mail mocked African Americans through a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: “I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!”
                        April 2011: An e-mail depicted Obama as a chimpanzee.
                        May 2011: An e-mail said: “An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, ‘Crimestoppers.’”
                        June 2011: An e-mail described a man seeking to obtain “welfare” for his dogs because they are “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who their Daddies are.”
                        October 2011: An e-mail included a photo of a group of bare-chested women dancing, seemingly in Africa, with the caption, “Michelle Obama’s High School Reunion.”
                        How are a few jokes sent around through email "horrifying racist behavior"?

                        This is "horrifying racist behavior":

                        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1033062

                        "They rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open," Coon told KMBC. "(One of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.'"

                        By lighting the gasoline, the second attacker "produced a large fireball burning the face and hair" of the boy, according to a Kansas City Police Department report obtained by KCTV.
                        Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops, 90% of citations, and 93% of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67% of Ferguson's population. African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. From 2012 to 2014, FPD issued four or more citations to African Americans on 73 occasions, but issued four or more citations to non-African Americans only twice. FPD appears to bring certain offenses almost exclusively against African Americans. For example, from 2011 to 2013, African Americans accounted for 95% of Manner of Walking in Roadway chargers, and 94% of all Failure to Comply charges. Notably, with respect to speeding charges brought by FPD, the evidence shows not only that African Americans are represented at disproportionately high rates overall, but also that the disparate impact of FPD's enforcement practices on African Americans is 48% larger when citations are issued not on the basis of radar or laser, but by some other method, such as the officer's own visual assessment.

                        These disparities are also present in FPD's use of force. Nearly 90% of documented force used by FPD officers are used against African Americans. In every canine bite incident for which racial information is available, the person bitter was African American.

                        Municipal court practices likewise cause disproportionate harm to African Americans. African Americans are 68% less likely than others to have their cases dismissed by the court, and are more likely to have their cases last longer and result in more required court encounters. African Americans are at least 50% more likely to have their cases lead to an arrest warrant, and accounted for 92% of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued by the Ferguson Municipal Court in 2013. Available data show that, of those actually arrested by FPD only because of an outstanding municipal warrant, 96% are African American. (pg 4-5)
                        This data is meaningless because it omits the massive disparity in black and white crime rates. The reason why African Americans are targeted a lot more often is because they commit crimes a lot more often. Just about every time these misleading statistics are brought up it usually turns out that the cops actually go easier on blacks than they would on whites if crime rates were similar.

                        And then there are these deeply disturbing accounts:

                        In July 2013 police encountered an African-American man in a parking lot while on their way to arrest someone else at an apartment building. Police knew that the encountered man was not the person they had come to arrest. Nonetheless, without even reasonable suspicion, they handcuffed the man, placed him in the back of a patrol car, and ran his record. It turned out he was the intended arrestee's landlord. (pg 17)

                        In January 2013, a patrol sergeant stopped an African-American man after he saw the man talk to an individual in a truck and then walk away. The sergeant detained the man, although he did not articulate any reasonable suspicion that criminal activity was afoot. When the man declined to answer questions or submit to a frisk--which the sergeant sought to execute despite articulating no reason to believe the man was armed--the sergeant grabbed the man by the belt, drew his ECW, and ordered the man to comply. The man crossed his arms and objected that he had not done anything wrong. Video captured by the ECW's built-in camera shows that the man made no aggressive movement toward the officer. The sergeant fired the ECW, applying a five-second cycle of electricity and causing the man to fall to the ground. The sergeant almost immediately applied the ECW again, which he later justified in his report by claiming that the man tried to stand up. The video makes clear, however, that the man never tried to stand--he only writed in pain on the ground. The video also shows that the sergeant applied the ECW nearly continuously for 20 seconds, longer than represented in his report. (pg 37)

                        We spoke with one African-American man who, in August 2014, had an argument in his apartment to which FPD officers responded, and was immediately pulled out of his apartment by force. After telling the officer, "you don't have a reason to lock me up," he claims the officer responded: "N*****, I can find something to lock you up on." When the man responded, "good luck with that," the officer slammed his face into the wall, and after the man fell to the floor, the officer said, "don't pass out [censored] because I'm not carrying you to my car." (pg 76)
                        How are the first two racist? And the last one's testimony is pretty worthless considering the Ferguson community's policy of protecting and lying for criminals.

                        So, it seems that the "hands up, don't shoot" movement may have been based on erroneous eyewitness testimony, but I believe that we do ourselves and others a disservice by focusing only on one side. If we want to make sure something like Ferguson never happens again, both sides need to be evaluated, and as I said earlier, the truth appears to be complex and messy. If this report is accurate, it certainly sheds light on the depth of the racial tension and anger in the town, and makes it much more understandable as to why so many citizens were quick to believe that Brown was indeed shot while surrendering. It would also hint at an answer to a question that's long baffled me--assuming the veracity of Wilson's testimony, what possessed an 18-year old to so angrily disrespect and charge a police officer.
                        I agree that both sides should be evaluated. In the Michael Brown case specifically the Ferguson black community was largely proven to be perfectly willing to lie for a known criminal (the black people who testified against Brown did not go on camera, which tells us all there is to know about what would happen to them if they had). Their broader complaints appear to be the usual fare: lower class blacks committing crimes then crying because they're "unfairly" targeted, cops being predictably more violent and ruthless in high crime communities because only thrill seekers and psychopaths actually want to work there, liberals molesting statistics like a Rotherham Pakistani gang, etc.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah you can always trust the testimony of criminals when it comes to the topic of Police.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                            In which case it's even more understandable how the idea that Brown was surrendering came to be, isn't it?.
                            You mean, because the MSM from DAY ONE was determined that this was a white police officer gunning down a completely innocent black youth?

                            It would have been FAR better to look for FACTS than manufacture a STORY.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                              How are a few jokes sent around through email "horrifying racist behavior"?
                              The "jokes" are horrifyingly racist.

                              This data is meaningless because it omits the massive disparity in black and white crime rates. The reason why African Americans are targeted a lot more often is because they commit crimes a lot more often.
                              The report elsewhere notes that black people make up the majority of arrests/stops for drug checks but are 26% less likely to be found in possession of contraband.

                              How are the first two racist?
                              Wrongfully detaining and brutalizing minorities doesn't suggest anything to you?


                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Yeah you can always trust the testimony of criminals when it comes to the topic of Police.
                              The report says that video and police records showed that those men weren't criminals.
                              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                              Comment

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