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Religious Kids More Moral?

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  • Religious Kids More Moral?

    Interesting:

    Religious students more 'moral' than atheists or agnostics study

    Students who profess a religious faith are more "moral" than those who are atheist or have no religion, according to new research.

    The study, published by Birmingham's University's Jubilee Centre for Character and Virtues, found that religion is correlated with character building.

    The study of 10,200 students and 250 teachers from 68 UK schools took place between February 2013 and June 2014 and is the largest of its kind. Researchers used surveys, moral dilemma tests and interviews.

    The religious students scored higher on the moral dilemma tests and within the religious group, those who practiced their religion scored more highly than those who did not. Girls also scored higher than boys when faced with moral dilemmas.

    Students who attended faith schools achieved slightly, but statistically significantly, better moral dilemma scores than those going to non-faith schools.
    http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...tudy/49315.htm

    http://www.jubileecentre.ac.uk/userf...UK_Schools.pdf
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    I'd be interested to know what moral standard they were using to judge what "more moral" meant.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      I'd be interested to know what moral standard they were using to judge what "more moral" meant.
      How tolerant you are?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        I'd be interested to know what moral standard they were using to judge what "more moral" meant.
        It says so in the paper. They're basing it loosely on Aristotleian virtue ethics:

        These dilemmas (measuring honesty, courage and self-discipline) were chosen because they measure virtues that seem uncontested across cultures and because they also match qualities measured by the VIA Youth Survey (self-report, used as part
        of the triangulation).


        It's a very convoluted study, though, and seer's representation of it is hardly complete. Just look at these three results:

        – girls (47%) significantly outperformed boys (37%) – for total Ad-ICM (UK).

        - Students who said that they were religious achieved higher Ad-ICM (UK) scores (46%) than those who selected atheist or did not provide a religion (42%); the difference was statistically significant. The difference increased when students were asked whether they practised their religion or not: those who said that they did scored 48% compared to those who did not (42%), or did not know/would rather not say (41%). This difference was also significant.

        - Students who said that either both of their parents or their father had attended university scored closer to the expert panel (both 47%) than those who did not know (38%) or said neither of their parents had been (42%). Those whose mothers only had attended university were in the middle (43%). Differences between groups were significant.


        You get a bigger spread between educated/uneducated parents than you between religious/non-religious.
        I'm not here anymore.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post

          It's a very convoluted study, though, and seer's representation of it is hardly complete. Just look at these three results:
          What do you mean my representation?

          - Students who said that either both of their parents or their father had attended university scored closer to the expert panel (both 47%) than those who did not know (38%) or said neither of their parents had been (42%). Those whose mothers only had attended university were in the middle (43%). Differences between groups were significant.[/box]

          You get a bigger spread between educated/uneducated parents than you between religious/non-religious.
          I wonder what the score would be for the kids who had both parents that attended university and were practicing religion.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            What do you mean my representation?
            I mean you picked out the part you cared about and ignored the rest of the study. It's not terribly interesting that religion plays an impact when educated parents have the same impact.
            I'm not here anymore.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
              It says so in the paper. They're basing it loosely on Aristotleian virtue ethics:

              These dilemmas (measuring honesty, courage and self-discipline) were chosen because they measure virtues that seem uncontested across cultures and because they also match qualities measured by the VIA Youth Survey (self-report, used as part
              of the triangulation).


              It's a very convoluted study, though, and seer's representation of it is hardly complete. Just look at these three results:

              – girls (47%) significantly outperformed boys (37%) – for total Ad-ICM (UK).

              - Students who said that they were religious achieved higher Ad-ICM (UK) scores (46%) than those who selected atheist or did not provide a religion (42%); the difference was statistically significant. The difference increased when students were asked whether they practised their religion or not: those who said that they did scored 48% compared to those who did not (42%), or did not know/would rather not say (41%). This difference was also significant.

              - Students who said that either both of their parents or their father had attended university scored closer to the expert panel (both 47%) than those who did not know (38%) or said neither of their parents had been (42%). Those whose mothers only had attended university were in the middle (43%). Differences between groups were significant.


              You get a bigger spread between educated/uneducated parents than you between religious/non-religious.
              Not exactly.

              Spread for is/is not religious: 4
              Spread for practices (or not) religion: 6
              Spread for parental education (for students who knew): 5

              Evidently to get the bigger improvement, you have to practice your religion.

              Interesting that those students that didn't know (regarding their parents' education) were so much lower, though.



              I'll throw in a personal anecdote:
              At different times I attended a government school and a private Christian school. I found the private school students to more decent people. For example, walking in the crowded halls, it is not uncommon for people to accidentally bump into each other. On such occasions, at the government school I was typically met with dirty looks and curses. At the private school I never saw that; instead I was met with a, "Oh, pardon me."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                I mean you picked out the part you cared about and ignored the rest of the study. It's not terribly interesting that religion plays an impact when educated parents have the same impact.
                No, it is apples and oranges until you compare religious kids with educated parents against non-religious kids with educated parents.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  Not exactly.

                  Spread for is/is not religious: 4
                  Spread for practices (or not) religion: 6
                  Spread for parental education (for students who knew): 5

                  Evidently to get the bigger improvement, you have to practice your religion.
                  Or know that your parents were educated. Seriously, discounting part of the spread won't get you far.


                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  Interesting that those students that didn't know (regarding their parents' education) were so much lower, though.
                  I think you could easily translate this into "likelihood of parents to instill moral education". An educated parent will do more, as will a religiously motivated parent. Those that don't practice, or whose kids don't even know of their education, aren't providing the same impetus.


                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  I'll throw in a personal anecdote:
                  At different times I attended a government school and a private Christian school. I found the private school students to more decent people. For example, walking in the crowded halls, it is not uncommon for people to accidentally bump into each other. On such occasions, at the government school I was typically met with dirty looks and curses. At the private school I never saw that; instead I was met with a, "Oh, pardon me."
                  I went to a small private school for a few years. There were ~15 people in my grade. My senior class had 189 (barely 4A school). You had better get along when there's 15 of you. It's not as important when there's nearly 200. There could be a lot of explanations for this behavior.
                  I'm not here anymore.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    No, it is apples and oranges until you compare religious kids with educated parents against non-religious kids with educated parents.
                    It's not, actually. If you show an improvement through X, and you show a similar improvement through Y, it's not particularly surprising to find even more improvement when you combine the two. If you're going to compare the impact of two different influences, you need to look at all four outcomes, not just the best and worst case.
                    I'm not here anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                      It's not, actually. If you show an improvement through X, and you show a similar improvement through Y, it's not particularly surprising to find even more improvement when you combine the two. If you're going to compare the impact of two different influences, you need to look at all four outcomes, not just the best and worst case.
                      Well it seems to me if you are going to focus on a particular demographic (i.e. kids with educated parents) there would have to be a further break down. What is the ratio of religious educated parents/kids to non-religious educated parents/kids in this group. Lets say that 20% of this group were religious, and these 20% were removed - wouldn't that markedly reduce the numbers?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Interesting:

                        Religious students more 'moral' than atheists or agnostics study



                        http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...tudy/49315.htm

                        http://www.jubileecentre.ac.uk/userf...UK_Schools.pdf
                        I don't feel any different moral wise from the atheist kids in my High School, maybe that's just me.
                        "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                        "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                        Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A US study last year found no difference in moral behavior between religious and non-religious people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Well it seems to me if you are going to focus on a particular demographic (i.e. kids with educated parents) there would have to be a further break down. What is the ratio of religious educated parents/kids to non-religious educated parents/kids in this group. Lets say that 20% of this group were religious, and these 20% were removed - wouldn't that markedly reduce the numbers?
                            'Markedly' is unknown. It's reasonable to expect a progression like the following: religious educated, religious not educated / educated not religious, not educated not religious. This is why I said you need to look at all four outcomes.
                            I'm not here anymore.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              I went to a small private school for a few years. There were ~15 people in my grade. My senior class had 189 (barely 4A school). You had better get along when there's 15 of you. It's not as important when there's nearly 200. There could be a lot of explanations for this behavior.
                              In my case the two schools (and my grade) were about the same size.

                              Comment

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