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Russia Strikes Back

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    That's not what was originally alleged. In fact this is such a trivial clam I'm not sure what it even has to do with this discussion. Of course the US was involved in Ukraine politics.
    Fair enough, would 'significantly involved' be better?

    What was originally alleged was "the United States has toppled the democratically-elected government of Ukraine, installed a Washington-backed stooge in Kiev, launched a bloody and costly war of annihilation on Russian-speaking people in the East,". In other words that the entire operation was US run and the Ukraine was a passive puppet...
    These are not people in control. People in control don't need to persuade or "work on" their puppet or bring in international personalities to help midwife this thing. People in control would not even have this discussion, they would be sending marching orders to their Ukrainian puppets.
    I'm not sure why you must read the article as depicting the extreme of puppetry. While the US (according to the article) had a very major role, that hardly implies that the situation was in its total 'control', especially before the coup when the pro-Russia Yanukovich was still in power.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      No, you're getting mixed up: I'm saying it was easy to foresee IF they had done what the OP alleges they did. They didn't foresee it because they didn't do it.
      Right, I misunderstood. However, given the mentality of the Western leaders I argue they would have not foreseen it:

      What is known is that after Yanukovich negotiated a deal with the opposition that reduced his powers in exchange for letting him stay on for a time, a deal brokered by (iirc) Germany and UK and witnessed by Russia, the next day he was ousted, leading to the celebration of the US and the more muted reaction of Western Europe.

      If they didn't foresee that Russia would intervene in this actual scenario, IMO there is no reason to think that they would have foreseen it in the one discussed.

      It is equivalent to no help because it doesn't actually help. Of course the US has a vested interest in resolving the problem. The fact that they don't do much to solve it (one way or another) shows that the leadership (IE: Obama) don't care about solving the problem, which casts further serious doubts on the hysterical claims in the OP article that Obama masterminded the whole thing.
      Possibly. But given Obama's misreadings of the situation and Putin my guess is that it's much more likely that he's trying to do the least possible - not least because of domestic politics - but is finding himself having to escalate.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        Stopped reading, another retarded article.
        From an article in my local daily rag, this appears to be tame compared to what's passing for the news nowadays in Russia, and anti-American sentiment there is now worse than the Soviet era.
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