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Russia Strikes Back

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  • Russia Strikes Back

    In less than a year, the United States has toppled the democratically-elected government of Ukraine, installed a Washington-backed stooge in Kiev, launched a bloody and costly war of annihilation on Russian-speaking people in the East, thrust the economy into a downward death spiral, and reduced the nation to an anarchic, failed state destined to endure a vicious fratricidal civil war for as far as the eye can see.

    Last week, Washington suffered its greatest military defeat in more than a decade when Ukraine’s US-backed army was soundly routed in the major railway hub of Debaltsevo. Roughly, 8,000 Ukrainian regulars along with untold numbers of tanks and armored units were surrounded in what-came-to-be-known-as “the cauldron.” The army of the Donetsk Peoples Republic led by DPR commander Alexander Zakharchenko, encircled the invading army and gradually tightened the cordon, eventually killing or capturing most of the troops within the pocket. The Ukrainian Armed Forces suffered major casualties ranging between 3,000 to 3,500 while a vast amount of lethal military hardware was left behind.

    According to Zakharchenko, “The amount of equipment Ukrainian units have lost here is beyond description.”

    Additionally, the US-backed proxy-army saw many of its crack troops and top-notch units destroyed in the fighting leaving Kiev unable to continue the war without assistance from allies in the US or Europe...

    Nevertheless, Washington is pressing Kiev to prepare for a renewed offensive and is still discussing directly arming the Ukrainian army against Russia with US weapons….

    In west Ukraine, the population is evading or resisting draft orders to obtain more cannon fodder for the east Ukraine war. At the same time, Ukraine’s economy, cut off from its main industrial base in east Ukraine and its export markets in Russia, is collapsing...

    Washington has largely won the information war, having persuaded Congress and the American people that US policy in Ukraine is “just”, but on the ground, where it counts, Washington has encountered one catastrophic failure after another. This process will undoubtedly persist until the costs are too exorbitant to bear.

    A rather amusing article.

  • #2
    n less than a year, the United States has toppled the democratically-elected government of Ukraine,
    Stopped reading, another retarded article.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      Stopped reading, another retarded article.
      Why? It is not something I think can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but it is a plausible theory.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's not the least bit plausible, it's pure retardation spawned by the mind of pseudo-conservative cuckold fetishists who dream of a muscular Putin riding in on a bear to save them from liberalism because they're too weak and unimaginative to solve their own domestic problems. Not only is there zero evidence that the US came up with the plot, let alone was the ringleader, but it has remained strangely uninvolved in the conflict beyond the minimum necessary to pretend it's doing something. While Putin's sending troops and hardware to Eastern Ukraine Obama sent the Ukrainian military dehydrated burritos. Nobody with the least bit of knowledge of East European affairs would fail to see that the conflict has been a long time coming and the only miracle is that it hasn't happened sooner. Ukraine was designed upon release from the Soviet Union to remain a Russian puppet by leaving them with a powerful Eastern ethnic Russian elite and it was only a matter of time before the Ukrainian population rebelled against them and the nutjobs who think the world is perfect and nobody anywhere has any reason for conflict outside of the CIA stirring up trouble.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
          Stopped reading, another ham-handed propaganda piece.
          FIFY. The only place where America seems to be winning anything regarding the conflict is in select areas of influence inside the beltway. The only things from the US affecting the Russians at all are low oil prices caused in spite of official US policy.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            It's not the least bit plausible, it's pure retardation spawned by the mind of pseudo-conservative cuckold fetishists who dream of a muscular Putin riding in on a bear to save them from liberalism because they're too weak and unimaginative to solve their own domestic problems.
            I chuckled. It is an apt description of certain writers.

            Will get back to you on US involvement. As to the rest:
            , but it has remained strangely uninvolved in the conflict beyond the minimum necessary to pretend it's doing something.
            "President Barack Obama's administration has long debated providing weapons to the Kiev government, but has so far concluded that it might only prompt Russia to escalate its aid to the separatist rebels."

            While Putin's sending troops and hardware to Eastern Ukraine Obama sent the Ukrainian military dehydrated burritos.
            "The new non-lethal aid Biden will present in Kiev includes Humvees from excess supplies in the Pentagon's inventory, as well as the delivery of previously promised radars that can detect the location of enemy mortars, officials said. They did not specify a dollar value for the assistance.

            Previous non-lethal aid to Ukraine includes $53 million announced in September for military equipment such as counter-mortar detection units, body armor, binoculars, small boats and other gear for Ukraine's security forces and border guards in the east." (same link)

            Also "advisers".

            Nobody with the least bit of knowledge of East European affairs would fail to see that the conflict has been a long time coming and the only miracle is that it hasn't happened sooner. Ukraine was designed upon release from the Soviet Union to remain a Russian puppet by leaving them with a powerful Eastern ethnic Russian elite and it was only a matter of time before the Ukrainian population rebelled against them and the nutjobs who think the world is perfect and nobody anywhere has any reason for conflict outside of the CIA stirring up trouble.
            The article isn't saying that the conflict was not coming for a long time. I'm not sure what the author thinks about this point, but IMO while a conflict has been inevitable the current crisis was precipitated by the ousting of the dictator and the majority regaining power and attempting to oppress the previously dominant minority (basically like Iraq).
            Last edited by Paprika; 02-25-2015, 07:06 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              A strange concern from someone allegedly picking a fight with Russia. If Obama planned this he'd have had the support coming in before the overthrow, not scramble and drag his feet afterwards. It's just further confirmation that not only was the US immaterial to the situation but also that it still has no interest in an actual conflict.

              The article isn't saying that the conflict was not coming for a long time.
              The article is saying it was a US run operation, which is stupid and completely contradictory to both easily verifiable reality and what actually happened.

              I'm not sure what the author thinks about this point, but IMO while a conflict has been inevitable the current crisis was precipitated by the ousting of the dictator and the majority regaining power and attempting to oppress the previously dominant minority (basically like Iraq).
              As far as I know the "oppression" started when the previously dominant minority suddenly wanted political independence from the country they spent the last few decades helping Russian oligarchs to loot. As a moral issue they deserve to be obliterated but as a practical issue Ukraine should've just expelled all the historically Russian territories that acted as trojan horses instead of bitterly clinging to them out of pride.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                A strange concern from someone allegedly picking a fight with Russia. If Obama planned this he'd have had the support coming in before the overthrow, not scramble and drag his feet afterwards.
                If he had foreseen the Russian military action, yes. It was rather obvious, yes, but for some reason even after the coup the leaders of countries such as US, Germany, and France did not foresee it; they were all blindsided. I think you're giving Obama too much credit.

                as a practical issue Ukraine should've just expelled all the historically Russian territories that acted as trojan horses instead of bitterly clinging to them out of pride.
                Agreed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  Will get back to you on US involvement.
                  The leaked Nuland call.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                    The leaked Nuland call.
                    The leaked Nuland call confirms what I've been saying...
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      If he had foreseen the Russian military action, yes. It was rather obvious, yes, but for some reason even after the coup the leaders of countries such as US, Germany, and France did not foresee it; they were all blindsided. I think you're giving Obama too much credit.
                      It was easy to foresee. And it doesn't change the fact that Obama didn't help them after hostilities started and still isn't actually helping them (no, sending advisers after it's far too late does not constitute help, it's like that MadTV skit with Oprah where she brings some guy who had his house destroyed on her show and offers him an Oprah care package instead of rebuilding his house like she implied she would). To say nothing of the fact that Obama's actions don't change the history of the region or the reality of Russian interference in the region long before Obama was in office.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        The leaked Nuland call confirms what I've been saying...
                        It makes it clear that the US was involved in Ukraine politics pre-coup.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                          It was easy to foresee.
                          Quite, but your earlier point was based on the assumption that it had been foreseen by the US, but the responses of many leaders in the West tell otherwise.

                          And it doesn't change the fact that Obama didn't help them after hostilities started and still isn't actually helping them (no, sending advisers after it's far too late does not constitute help, it's like that MadTV skit with Oprah where she brings some guy who had his house destroyed on her show and offers him an Oprah care package instead of rebuilding his house like she implied she would).
                          I'm not sure how not helping to the extent that one implies or has promises is equivalent to no help; helping to the limit of what is personally expedient is but normal in politics. It doesn't follow from the fact that US's help is non-optimal to solve the problem that it has had no vested interest or stake in resolving the problem; it may have well have other concerns not to devote too many resources to one problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            It makes it clear that the US was involved in Ukraine politics pre-coup.
                            That's not what was originally alleged. In fact this is such a trivial clam I'm not sure what it even has to do with this discussion. Of course the US was involved in Ukraine politics. Every country that has diplomatic relations with another country is involved in their politics. Heck, countries which don't have diplomatic relations with other countries can sometimes be involved in each other's politics.

                            What was originally alleged was "the United States has toppled the democratically-elected government of Ukraine, installed a Washington-backed stooge in Kiev, launched a bloody and costly war of annihilation on Russian-speaking people in the East,". In other words that the entire operation was US run and the Ukraine was a passive puppet. The tapes show the exact opposite, that the US had no power over this thing beyond what two dumb and dumber type third rate bureaucrats could persuade them to do.

                            Pyatt: No, exactly. And I think we've got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I'm still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there's a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I'm sure there's a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep... we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.
                            These are not people in control. People in control don't need to persuade or "work on" their puppet or bring in international personalities to help midwife this thing. People in control would not even have this discussion, they would be sending marching orders to their Ukrainian puppets.
                            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              Quite, but your earlier point was based on the assumption that it had been foreseen by the US, but the responses of many leaders in the West tell otherwise.
                              No, you're getting mixed up: I'm saying it was easy to foresee IF they had done what the OP alleges they did. They didn't foresee it because they didn't do it.

                              I'm not sure how not helping to the extent that one implies or has promises is equivalent to no help; helping to the limit of what is personally expedient is but normal in politics. It doesn't follow from the fact that US's help is non-optimal to solve the problem that it has had no vested interest or stake in resolving the problem; it may have well have other concerns not to devote too many resources to one problem.
                              It is equivalent to no help because it doesn't actually help. Of course the US has a vested interest in resolving the problem. The fact that they don't do much to solve it (one way or another) shows that the leadership (IE: Obama) don't care about solving the problem, which casts further serious doubts on the hysterical claims in the OP article that Obama masterminded the whole thing.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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