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O'Reilly does a Brian Williams x10

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    You're missing the part about O'Reilly claiming that the Argentinean army fired live ammunition at protesters and that many people died. So, at times, O'Reilly claimed to have been in a war zone (and correspondents usually don't rhetorically say that they've been in a "war zone" when covering an actual war unless they were in an actual war zone). He also made factual claims about the scenario he was part of, specifically seeing "many people" die from being fired upon by the army.

    Williams was in the helicopter behind the one that was hit by a RPG and grounded: "shot down," in other words. Maybe a lie, maybe a mis-remembering of fact. But in no way worse than flat-out inventing things that didn't happen -anywhere- at the time.

    —Sam
    OK. so they're both liars.

    One is supposedly a respected journalist on a major network - the other is a commentator on a right wing loony fringe network.

    Happy?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      OK. so they're both liars.

      One is supposedly a respected journalist on a major network - the other is a commentator on a right wing loony fringe network.

      Happy?
      No, Brian Williams just misremembered. Haven't you been paying attention?
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        OK. so they're both liars.

        One is supposedly a respected journalist on a major network - the other is a commentator on a right wing loony fringe network.

        Happy?
        Liars or serial mis-rememberers.

        Remember that my first post here noted the distinction between Williams being a commentator journalist [Ed.: oops] and O'Reilly being a right-wing commentator on Fox as a reason for the hammer to come down much harder on Williams than on O'Reilly.
        Last edited by Sam; 02-24-2015, 10:11 PM.
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Have you tried actually listening to some of what O'Reilly said?
          "I was in a situation one time in a war-zone, in Argentina, in the Falklands, where my photographer got run down, and hit his head and was bleeding from the ear on the concrete, and the army was chasing us... and I had to make a decision and I dragged him off." - O'Reilly 2013.

          I've bolded the parts of O'Reilly's statements that have since been found to be totally false. He wasn't in the Falklands. He didn't cover the war. He covered some mostly-peaceful protests after the war. No cameramen were hurt. The part about rescuing his photographer from anything is totally fictional.
          No, I haven't had time to listen to that. But thanks for providing it. Sounds like O'Reilly and Williams are tied for lies.
          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            You're missing the part about O'Reilly claiming that the Argentinean army fired live ammunition at protesters and that many people died. So, at times, O'Reilly claimed to have been in a war zone (and correspondents usually don't rhetorically say that they've been in a "war zone" when covering an actual war unless they were in an actual war zone). He also made factual claims about the scenario he was part of, specifically seeing "many people" die from being fired upon by the army.

            Williams was in the helicopter behind the one that was hit by a RPG and grounded: "shot down," in other words. Maybe a lie, maybe a mis-remembering of fact. But in no way worse than flat-out inventing things that didn't happen -anywhere- at the time.

            —Sam
            It wasn't "maybe a lie" on Williams' part...it was a big, fat, stinking lie. One doesn't "misremember" something that never actually happened. You were either in the helicopter that got hit by an RPG, or you weren't. Pretty simple dichotomy.

            I saw someone posting that memory distortion information about how people who experience traumatic events sometimes misremember the details. That's all well and good, but none of it applies to Mr. Williams. We now know that there was nothing traumatic that happened to him with regards to this helicopter (he was an hour behind in a different helicopter)...so he didn't experience anything traumatic to begin with.
            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              At this point it might have a lot to do with the credibility of those who leveled the charges. Further, it appears that it was pretty much an "open secret" at NBC that Williams was, um, exaggerating about things and that several folks had sought to rein him back in. I'm not sure if that was the case with Fox, especially considering that the things O'Reilly is being charged with happened when he worked for different networks which is not the case with Williams.
              I think Ailes has made a major misstep here. There was no reason to put the credibility of Fox News behind O'Reilly on this issue. "We didn't hire him as a war correspondent" or even "no comment" would have been just fine, considering.

              O'Reilly's gun is still dusting his own feet with these latest "defenses."

              From the article I linked earlier ...

              (... and could someone fix the link in my previous post?):
              On Monday, there was also a back and forth over Mr. O’Reilly’s use of a New York Times article from 1982 reporting on the protests in Buenos Aires during an interview on Sunday’s Media Buzz show on Fox. Mr. O’Reilly faced criticism for cutting out a key phrase when he read excerpts from the Times article to back up his assertions that he was reporting from a war zone. The article read: “One policeman pulled a pistol, firing five shots over the heads of fleeing demonstrators.” Mr. O’Reilly left out that the shots were “over the heads of fleeing demonstrators.”

              That's a far cry from live rounds being fired into the demonstrators, which is what was under dispute, and the omission is surely telling.

              Even more telling:
              During a phone conversation, he told a reporter for The New York Times that there would be repercussions if he felt any of the reporter’s coverage was inappropriate. “I am coming after you with everything I have,” Mr. O’Reilly said. “You can take it as a threat.”

              While this may seem ambiguous to the casual reader, the third-person reference, combined with a lack of a named reporter, is a standard journalistic convention conveying that the threat was made to either Emily Steel or Ravi Somaiya, the reporters bylined in this piece. While Ailes' motivation for sending a flack to back up O'Reilly is unclear, it's easy to extrapolate this belligerence directed outside Fox into belligerence directed inside toward those who fail to fully support him. He's a loose cannon, and nobody inside Fox is big enough to put a shim under his wheels.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                Liars or serial mis-rememberers.

                Remember that my first post here noted the distinction between Williams being a commentator journalist [Ed.: oops] and O'Reilly being a right-wing commentator on Fox as a reason for the hammer to come down much harder on Williams than on O'Reilly.
                So which lie or misrememberization is greater in impact on the American people...

                A) O'Reilly pinned down under fire
                2) Williams near death experience on a military chopper
                C) "You can keep your doctor, period... you can keep your health care plan, period!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  So which lie or misrememberization is greater in impact on the American people...

                  A) O'Reilly pinned down under fire
                  2) Williams near death experience on a military chopper
                  C) "You can keep your doctor, period... you can keep your health care plan, period!
                  The ACA didn't cause folks to lose their doctors or their health care plans. Saying otherwise is a lie that has an arguably greater impact on the American people.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                    The ACA didn't cause folks to lose their doctors or their health care plans.
                    http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/mil...ost-insurance/
                    Source: FactCheck.org

                    It’s true that insurance companies discontinued health plans that had covered millions of people who had bought them directly rather than through an employer. That’s because those plans didn’t meet the coverage standards of the new law.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Saying otherwise is a lie that has an arguably greater impact on the American people.
                    It's deceptive to say "didn't cause folks to lose"... if I can find TWO people who lost their doctor or health care plan, your statement is false.

                    Source: HuffingtonPost

                    Estimates vary, but the Census Bureau says this figure is about 4 percent of Americans, which comes to about 11 million people. A lot of those folks are finding out that the health insurance plans they have this year aren't going to be sold anymore. How many? Hard to say, with reports ranging from a few hundred thousand to millions. (And their coverage isn't changing today; it's changing next year.)

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Last edited by Cow Poke; 02-25-2015, 10:25 AM.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/mil...ost-insurance/
                      Source: FactCheck.org

                      It’s true that insurance companies discontinued health plans that had covered millions of people who had bought them directly rather than through an employer. That’s because those plans didn’t meet the coverage standards of the new law.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      It's deceptive to say "didn't cause folks to lose"... if I can find TWO people who lost their doctor or health care plan, your statement is false.

                      Source: HuffingtonPost

                      Estimates vary, but the Census Bureau says this figure is about 4 percent of Americans, which comes to about 11 million people. A lot of those folks are finding out that the health insurance plans they have this year aren't going to be sold anymore. How many? Hard to say, with reports ranging from a few hundred thousand to millions. (And their coverage isn't changing today; it's changing next year.)

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      It's deceptive to omit the fact that even those health plans that did not meet the new standards were allowed under the ACA, under grandfathering clauses, and equally deceptive to suggest that insurance companies don't change health plans every year regardless, that doctors don't go in and out of health plans, that doctors don't retire, that networks don't change, that ...

                      Nevermind. You're OCD on the guy, so he must be a liar.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                        It's deceptive to omit the fact that even those health plans that did not meet the new standards were allowed under the ACA,
                        It is BECAUSE of the new standards that these plans did not qualify - the standards set by the ACA --- so that's WHY people lost their plans.

                        under grandfathering clauses, and equally deceptive to suggest that insurance companies don't change health plans every year regardless, that doctors don't go in and out of health plans, that doctors don't retire, that networks don't change, that ...
                        For cryin out loud, Jesse, I wasn't writing a TREATISE - I was asking a question!

                        Nevermind.
                        Shouda stared with that!

                        You're OCD on the guy, so he must be a liar.
                        And you're in love with the guy, so he must ALWAYS be telling the truth!

                        And just because you're being a jerk, I'm going to quote from the WASHINGTON POST, so THERE

                        Source: WashingtonPost

                        The Pinocchio Test

                        The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.

                        The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

                        The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”

                        Four Pinocchios

                        © Copyright Original Source


                        four pinocchos.jpg
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          It is BECAUSE of the new standards that these plans did not qualify - the standards set by the ACA --- so that's WHY people lost their plans.

                          For cryin out loud, Jesse, I wasn't writing a TREATISE - I was asking a question!

                          Shouda stared with that!
                          Hmm, looks more to me like you were dragging Obama into a discussion that had nothing to do with him because of your OCD, and getting poked because of it.

                          And you're in love with the guy, so he must ALWAYS be telling the truth!
                          If you want to fight about Obama, feel free to step outside. If I'm not there in 5 minutes, start without me.

                          And just because you're being a jerk, I'm going to quote from the WASHINGTON POST, so THERE

                          Source: WashingtonPost

                          The Pinocchio Test

                          The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.

                          The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

                          The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”

                          Four Pinocchios

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]4189[/ATTACH]
                          You didn't just post about the lie, you posted about its consequences.
                          What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church...a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them. — Martin Luther

                          I can think of 10 million reasons to support ACA even before we look at the improved standards for policies, and I'm pretty sure you know which 10 million those would be. One of them could have been my best friend from 20 years ago, except that he died from lack of health insurance ... couldn't afford his epilepsy medicine, had a grand mal seizure and died in the bathroom up against the door leaving his kids to bust down the door in a vain attempt to help. His name was Patrick Nelson. The kids were Jason and Harmony. I took them in myself until they could move out on their own.

                          While all y'all have sport going after improved health care coverage, laughing it up because it's a great way to go after your personal demon emperor, maybe you could spare a moment to think about the real consequences. People like Pat are going to be able to stay alive, and people like Jason and Harmony aren't going to be losing parents 50 years before their time.

                          Think twice before you decide to poke me on that one.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                            Think twice before you decide to poke me on that one.
                            Don't you have papers to grade?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Next class is in t-minus 11 minutes.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                                Next class is in t-minus 11 minutes.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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