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Youth Suicide And Religion

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    You are aware that there are plenty of non-theists (taking after Sam Harris, for instance) who would not agree with that claim, correct?
    Yes.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
      Yes.
      Are you certain that morality is subjective?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Jim, I just quoted Psychology Today. There are in fact aspects to religion that can not be duplicated by atheism, that are conducive to well being.
        Thats true, there is that one thing, the aspect of eternal life is not expected by non believers. Since we all, the religious and non religious alike, fear death to a certain extent, the promise of eternal life could prove conducive to the well being of "some people," which is probably one of the reasons for its being adopted as a belief in the first place. But, you shouldn't generalize, different people have different needs, and there are many non religious people whose well being is perfectly fine without that belief.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          I think the phrase "subjective morality" is redundant. All morality is necessarily subjective.
          It doesn't really matter if you think all morality is subjective or not. If God exists then His morality will necessarily be enforced in the end, whether or not you believe it to be just as subjective as any other form of morality.

          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          So an intelligent non-human animal cannot have a relationship with God? What's stopping them?
          Find me an intelligent non-human animal endowed with self-consciousness and I'll start worrying about this question.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            Are you certain that morality is subjective?
            No, that's just as I understand it at this time.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              It doesn't really matter if you think all morality is subjective or not. If God exists then His morality will necessarily be enforced in the end, whether or not you believe it to be just as subjective as any other form of morality.
              Okay? I mean, you asked the question.

              Find me an intelligent non-human animal endowed with self-consciousness and I'll start worrying about this question.
              Does Koko the gorilla count?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                Okay? I mean, you asked the question.

                My point is simply that in a world where all morality is subjective the only relevant forms of morality are the ones whose adherents are able to enforce them. In the Christian worldview, since God is the supreme ruler of the universe, the only view on good and evil which will win out in the end would in this case be His, since He would be able to enforce it to the exclusion of all other moralities.


                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                Does Koko the gorilla count?
                I do not know if Koko the gorilla has self-consciousness or not, but from what I've seen so far I'm unimpressed.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  My point is simply that in a world where all morality is subjective the only relevant forms of morality are the ones whose adherents are able to enforce them. In the Christian worldview, since God is the supreme ruler of the universe, the only view on good and evil which will win out in the end would in this case be His, since He would be able to enforce it to the exclusion of all other moralities.
                  I don't understand how you go from "will be enforced" to "relevant". I think the only relevant form of morality is that of the observer/individual.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    I don't understand how you go from "will be enforced" to "relevant". I think the only relevant form of morality is that of the observer/individual.
                    Relevant in this context simply means that it will be the only morality that will have more than a non-trivial consequence for the persons living in the universe. A human might insist that his morality is just as valid as God, but his insistence upon this "fact" will not matter one bit if God because of His omnipotence is able to enforce His own morality upon the human in question.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Thats true, there is that one thing, the aspect of eternal life is not expected by non believers. Since we all, the religious and non religious alike, fear death to a certain extent, the promise of eternal life could prove conducive to the well being of "some people," which is probably one of the reasons for its being adopted as a belief in the first place. But, you shouldn't generalize, different people have different needs, and there are many non religious people whose well being is perfectly fine without that belief.
                      And it is not just eternal life Jim, it is the idea of being loved by God, that life has an overriding purpose. And that we can be in community with God.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                        Relevant in this context simply means that it will be the only morality that will have more than a non-trivial consequence for the persons living in the universe. A human might insist that his morality is just as valid as God, but his insistence upon this "fact" will not matter one bit if God because of His omnipotence is able to enforce His own morality upon the human in question.
                        Wouldn't a person's own morality have a non-trivial consequence for themself? It determines how they act and what they think. God's morality seems relevant in the same way the morality or moralities that inform a law are relevant. Kim Jong-un's morality is enforced for all the people of North Korea, so for North Koreans, Kim Jong-un's morality is important in the same way you say God's is.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          And it is not just eternal life Jim, it is the idea of being loved by God, that life has an overriding purpose. And that we can be in community with God.
                          Okay, and a God is not necessary for being loved or being in community which is why I argued that religion is only one aspect of the study you presented. So that leaves eternal life and an overiding purpose. So what is the overiding purpose of your life eternal? You will, I am assuming, say that your eternal and overiding purpose in life would be to serve God, whatever that means, no? But that would not be your purpose, that would be Gods purpose for you. Is being a slave to the whims of another, be it God or man, somehow more purposeful than the purpose you put into your own life?

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