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I Consider Myself First

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  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    The story shows Rummy was NOT feigning? Or you know him well enough that you can know he was NOT feigning?

    I have read much about Rummy and the Bushes that tends to make me think little of their probity. For example I think Dubya and others lied the USA into attacking Saddam and Iraq.
    I think there's no reason for Rumsfeld to have added the quotations unless he was trying to appeal to Bush's Christian beliefs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truthseeker
    replied
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    You think they feign their Christianity? How can you know that? One story that comes to mind that seems in total opposition to that idea is the Biblical quotes on memos from Rumsfeld.
    The story shows Rummy was NOT feigning? Or you know him well enough that you can know he was NOT feigning?

    I have read much about Rummy and the Bushes that tends to make me think little of their probity. For example I think Dubya and others lied the USA into attacking Saddam and Iraq.
    Last edited by Truthseeker; 02-16-2015, 06:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    One group I have in mind include people who feign being Christians for political purposes. Possibly the Bushes, e.g. (GHWB, Dubya, and that Florida fella.)
    You think they feign their Christianity? How can you know that? One story that comes to mind that seems in total opposition to that idea is the Biblical quotes on memos from Rumsfeld.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truthseeker
    replied
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    Right. No matter who's in power, there's bound to be a decently-sized group in opposition. If you want to call Christian politicians pseudo, I think a definition of a true Christian is in order.
    One group I have in mind include people who feign being Christians for political purposes. Possibly the Bushes, e.g. (GHWB, Dubya, and that Florida fella.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    I tend to agree that government is a poor reflection at best. Was Hitler's rule a good reflection of the German people? (If you feel like pulling a Godwin on that, phooey to you.)

    Well, pseudo Christians for the most part. I think institutions of power, especially the USFG, attract sociopaths as honey attracts ants.
    Right. No matter who's in power, there's bound to be a decently-sized group in opposition. If you want to call Christian politicians pseudo, I think a definition of a true Christian is in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truthseeker
    replied
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    I don't see why you consider the government a reflection of the people.
    I tend to agree that government is a poor reflection at best. Was Hitler's rule a good reflection of the German people? (If you feel like pulling a Godwin on that, phooey to you.)


    What do you mean by "my faith group"? Most politicians in the US are Christians, so Christians can be said to control the government.
    Well, pseudo Christians for the most part. I think institutions of power, especially the USFG, attract sociopaths as honey attracts ants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    For me society is the larger environment that I live in. I am viewing government as a reflection of the people it governs and since my faith group doesn't control the government, we have to live under a government that has values that conflict with my faith groups values. Hence the potential for conflict.
    So by society you mean government? I don't see why you consider the government a reflection of the people. What do you mean by "my faith group"? Most politicians in the US are Christians, so Christians can be said to control the government.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoughtful Monk
    replied
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    There's a difference between faith and society? I don't see it. If you belong to a faith group like a church, that is your society. I find the idea that society is a homogenous group rather than a category comprising many different societies silly.
    For me society is the larger environment that I live in. I am viewing government as a reflection of the people it governs and since my faith group doesn't control the government, we have to live under a government that has values that conflict with my faith groups values. Hence the potential for conflict.
    Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 02-15-2015, 11:40 AM. Reason: Bad grammer

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  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    There's a difference between faith and society? I don't see it. If you belong to a faith group like a church, that is your society. I find the idea that society is a homogenous group rather than a category comprising many different societies silly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoughtful Monk
    replied
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    Ah, I see. But the world does not have a single position (possibly, though, you meant "society's position" very general).
    In this case, the society you happen to live in is the one under consideration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truthseeker
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    No, I meant within yourself. Do you desire to conform to your belief system or conform to society's position?
    Ah, I see. But the world does not have a single position (possibly, though, you meant "society's position" very general).

    Leave a comment:


  • Cerebrum123
    replied
    Originally posted by Jude View Post
    I am the lone no conflict vote. I misunderstood the choices. I was thinking that society norm = putting myself first. That today's society is an overtly selfish one. After realizing the true nature of the choices, I would choose to place what I believe ahead of society's position.
    I don't know how it would work, but they might be able to edit the poll to reflect this. You could try asking one of the owners if that's possible. If there's some reason that can't be done, at least you've gone on record about what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jude
    replied
    I am the lone no conflict vote. I misunderstood the choices. I was thinking that society norm = putting myself first. That today's society is an overtly selfish one. After realizing the true nature of the choices, I would choose to place what I believe ahead of society's position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoughtful Monk
    replied
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    What do you mean, "one wins over the other"? Did the Jews who stoned Stephen (Acts) win because he then went to be with his Father?
    No, I meant within yourself. Do you desire to conform to your belief system or conform to society's position?

    Leave a comment:


  • Truthseeker
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    There is always a conflict between believers and society. The question is the degree of conflict. When the two conflict seriously enough, generally one wins over the other. How do you make that choice - remember this is a major disagreement and for the purposes of this poll, please consider atheism as a belief system.
    What do you mean, "one wins over the other"? Did the Jews who stoned Stephen (Acts) win because he then went to be with his Father?

    Leave a comment:

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