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I Consider Myself First

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  • I Consider Myself First

    There is always a conflict between believers and society. The question is the degree of conflict. When the two conflict seriously enough, generally one wins over the other. How do you make that choice - remember this is a major disagreement and for the purposes of this poll, please consider atheism as a belief system.
    13
    A believer first, a member of my society second
    92.31%
    12
    I will favor the believer position
    0.00%
    0
    I don't believe such a conflict exists
    7.69%
    1
    I will favor the societal position
    0.00%
    0
    I'm a member of society first, a believer second
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

  • #2
    Faith, to me, always trumps society.

    Whether that is the atheist view, I don't know.

    I can't make any decisions without taking into account what I believe.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
      There is always a conflict between believers and society. The question is the degree of conflict. When the two conflict seriously enough, generally one wins over the other. How do you make that choice - remember this is a major disagreement and for the purposes of this poll, please consider atheism as a belief system.
      What do you mean, "one wins over the other"? Did the Jews who stoned Stephen (Acts) win because he then went to be with his Father?
      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

      [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
        What do you mean, "one wins over the other"? Did the Jews who stoned Stephen (Acts) win because he then went to be with his Father?
        No, I meant within yourself. Do you desire to conform to your belief system or conform to society's position?
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #5
          I am the lone no conflict vote. I misunderstood the choices. I was thinking that society norm = putting myself first. That today's society is an overtly selfish one. After realizing the true nature of the choices, I would choose to place what I believe ahead of society's position.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jude View Post
            I am the lone no conflict vote. I misunderstood the choices. I was thinking that society norm = putting myself first. That today's society is an overtly selfish one. After realizing the true nature of the choices, I would choose to place what I believe ahead of society's position.
            I don't know how it would work, but they might be able to edit the poll to reflect this. You could try asking one of the owners if that's possible. If there's some reason that can't be done, at least you've gone on record about what you think.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              No, I meant within yourself. Do you desire to conform to your belief system or conform to society's position?
              Ah, I see. But the world does not have a single position (possibly, though, you meant "society's position" very general).
              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

              [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                Ah, I see. But the world does not have a single position (possibly, though, you meant "society's position" very general).
                In this case, the society you happen to live in is the one under consideration.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's a difference between faith and society? I don't see it. If you belong to a faith group like a church, that is your society. I find the idea that society is a homogenous group rather than a category comprising many different societies silly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    There's a difference between faith and society? I don't see it. If you belong to a faith group like a church, that is your society. I find the idea that society is a homogenous group rather than a category comprising many different societies silly.
                    For me society is the larger environment that I live in. I am viewing government as a reflection of the people it governs and since my faith group doesn't control the government, we have to live under a government that has values that conflict with my faith groups values. Hence the potential for conflict.
                    Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 02-15-2015, 12:40 PM. Reason: Bad grammer
                    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                      For me society is the larger environment that I live in. I am viewing government as a reflection of the people it governs and since my faith group doesn't control the government, we have to live under a government that has values that conflict with my faith groups values. Hence the potential for conflict.
                      So by society you mean government? I don't see why you consider the government a reflection of the people. What do you mean by "my faith group"? Most politicians in the US are Christians, so Christians can be said to control the government.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        I don't see why you consider the government a reflection of the people.
                        I tend to agree that government is a poor reflection at best. Was Hitler's rule a good reflection of the German people? (If you feel like pulling a Godwin on that, phooey to you.)


                        What do you mean by "my faith group"? Most politicians in the US are Christians, so Christians can be said to control the government.
                        Well, pseudo Christians for the most part. I think institutions of power, especially the USFG, attract sociopaths as honey attracts ants.
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                          I tend to agree that government is a poor reflection at best. Was Hitler's rule a good reflection of the German people? (If you feel like pulling a Godwin on that, phooey to you.)

                          Well, pseudo Christians for the most part. I think institutions of power, especially the USFG, attract sociopaths as honey attracts ants.
                          Right. No matter who's in power, there's bound to be a decently-sized group in opposition. If you want to call Christian politicians pseudo, I think a definition of a true Christian is in order.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            Right. No matter who's in power, there's bound to be a decently-sized group in opposition. If you want to call Christian politicians pseudo, I think a definition of a true Christian is in order.
                            One group I have in mind include people who feign being Christians for political purposes. Possibly the Bushes, e.g. (GHWB, Dubya, and that Florida fella.)
                            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                            [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                              One group I have in mind include people who feign being Christians for political purposes. Possibly the Bushes, e.g. (GHWB, Dubya, and that Florida fella.)
                              You think they feign their Christianity? How can you know that? One story that comes to mind that seems in total opposition to that idea is the Biblical quotes on memos from Rumsfeld.

                              Comment

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