CUNY abolishes use of “Mr.,” “Mrs.” and “Ms.”

[Teallaura]

Uh, I don't know if any female posters would care to speak up here, but I'm skeptical of this. This seems like a very broad dismissal of something that's quite probably a real concern (male objectification).

He's too young for remember Playgirl.

Women only objectify men once they are married - when we start mistaking the lazy things for furniture.



Okay, serious answer: women have different ways on the whole of dehumanizing men - which is really what 'objectifying' is all about. And we most certainly are capable of deciding the only important adjective in front of 'male' should be 'husband material'. Our reasons may differ but we are just as likely to want a male 'piece of meat' around the house. Enter co-dependence - why else would women put up with some of the hysterically bad treatment? Not having a man is worse to them than having a really bad one.

[Darth Executor]

Besides, that was the least significant of the two points I mentioned. The more significant point is that men are generally not at risk of being thought of only as a piece of meat to be admired for physical gratification, while the same cannot always be said for women. So having revealing pictures of men does not really perpetuate negative stereotypes.

The women who complain the most about how women are seen as pieces of meat are usually ones nobody sees as pieces of meat.

[Teallaura]

The women who complain the most about how women are seen as pieces of meat are usually ones nobody sees as pieces of meat.

[lilpixieofterror]

Both would be problematic, but the presence of consent is less problematic.

Besides, that was the least significant of the two points I mentioned. The more significant point is that men are generally not at risk of being thought of only as a piece of meat to be admired for physical gratification, while the same cannot always be said for women. So having revealing pictures of men does not really perpetuate negative stereotypes.

You keep showing you know nothing about what you speak of.

[Paprika]

I haven't claimed that calling someone Mr. or Ms. is on par with yelling fire in a crowded room. Rather, I'm saying that people who believe it's wrong to yell fire in a crowded room have already given up the 'sanctity' of free speech.

Up to this point, you're are correct.

If you acknowledge that it can be abridged at times, when and where just becomes a matter of opinion.

It doesn't (necessarily) become a matter of opinion; what happens is that other considerations of principles either take priority or must be balanced with that of 'free speech'.

[fm93]

I could never have imagined that I'd see conservatives arguing so passionately in favor of letting people flaunt near-pornographic material in public.

On to the responses of actual substance:

Uh, I don't know if any female posters would care to speak up here, but I'm skeptical of this. This seems like a very broad dismissal of something that's quite probably a real concern (male objectification).

I suppose that some men are at risk of being thought of in such a way. But overall, men are so firmly represented in the arts and sciences and nearly every field relevant to the expression of humanity that it's widely obvious that the male sex as a whole is portrayed as consisting of people to be respected. Women, meanwhile, have not always been represented particularly well.

So it's okay to demean people so long as you objectify them as well - and they are stupid enough to consent

This has become an issue of semantics, so let me present this from a different angle. Do we agree that regardless of consent, people generally should not take up duties allowing representations of their sex in such a manner? The nature of objectification among men and women is such that even if some men decide to be represented in such a way, it seems highly unlikely that he thinks that's his only option, whereas there apparently are quite a few women who think that professions presenting them in objectifying manners are the only feasible option for them to gain fame or just a sustainable career.