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CUNY abolishes use of “Mr.,” “Mrs.” and “Ms.”

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  • #16
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    I appreciate CUNY's kindhearted effort to help students who genuinely struggle with gender identity issues by not wanting to possibly distress them while they sort things out during a very difficult time in their lives, but it seems that a better solution would be to simply allow each individual student to give a personal preference.
    You forgot the sarcasm tags.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by square_peg View Post
      I appreciate CUNY's kindhearted effort to help students who genuinely struggle with gender identity issues by not wanting to possibly distress them while they sort things out during a very difficult time in their lives, but it seems that a better solution would be to simply allow each individual student to give a personal preference.




      Ah, what the hell. The solution sounds somewhat silly, but I hardly feel like they should be slammed for what clearly seems like an honest attempt to be helpful.
      Instead of "kindhearted effort" I think that a better description would be a ham-handed attempt at enforcing political correctness by enforcing speech codes that stand in stark contrast to the idea of free speech.

      I wonder what will happen if one of the students declares that they are offended by someone refusing to address them as "Mr.," "Mrs." or "Ms."?

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Instead of "kindhearted effort" I think that a better description would be a ham-handed attempt at enforcing political correctness by enforcing speech codes that stand in stark contrast to the idea of free speech.

        I wonder what will happen if one of the students declares that they are offended by someone refusing to address them as "Mr.," "Mrs." or "Ms."?
        Trying to imagine what absurd thing is next to be found offensive could make for an interesting thought experiment.
        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
          For example, I once read (rather, skimmed) a blog post by a feminist who argued, quite seriously, that sexual intercourse of any sort was by definition rape, and that consensual sex between a man and a woman was inherently impossible. She was not joking.
          There's no accounting for idiots.


          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Instead of "kindhearted effort" I think that a better description would be a ham-handed attempt at enforcing political correctness by enforcing speech codes that stand in stark contrast to the idea of free speech.
          I don't think free speech was very well thought out, however nice it sounds in theory. It might work if it was put into practice the way it works in theory, but I don't see very many people willing to do that. Too many people still want you to not yell fire or bomb when they find it inconvenient.


          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          I wonder what will happen if one of the students declares that they are offended by someone refusing to address them as "Mr.," "Mrs." or "Ms."?
          I think today's youth are increasingly less likely to need or desire such forms of address. I don't even make my kid call me 'dad' (though she tends to anyway).
          Last edited by Carrikature; 02-10-2015, 05:00 PM.
          I'm not here anymore.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
            I don't think free speech was very well thought out, however nice it sounds in theory. It might work if it was put into practice the way it works in theory, but I don't see very many people willing to do that. Too many people still want you to not yell fire or bomb when they find it inconvenient.
            The problem with those scenarios is that people mistake speech for actions done using speech, which is not the same thing. Hiring a hitman uses speech, but it's not the speech that is punished, it's the use of a hitman as a murder tool. Likewise, shouting "bomb" in a crowded theater isn't necessarily a crime, just doing so as a means to start a human stampede. It's really not that hard to distinguish them from speech for the sake of promoting or protesting an idea.

            With the concerns of the university in the OP, it seems to me that universities don't even bother to try to balance out various concerns, preferring instead to suppress free speech altogether.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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            • #21
              I'm Miss Teal, to you, thank you very much.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                I'm Miss Teal, to you, thank you very much.
                Yesm, Miz Teal.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  You forgot the sarcasm tags.
                  No sarcasm was intended.


                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Instead of "kindhearted effort" I think that a better description would be a ham-handed attempt at enforcing political correctness by enforcing speech codes that stand in stark contrast to the idea of free speech.
                  Why choose to interpret it so ungraciously? Besides, I didn't see any indication of free speech being denied; rather, I just saw that they would stop using certain words. Doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to use those words if they so wish.

                  I wonder what will happen if one of the students declares that they are offended by someone refusing to address them as "Mr.," "Mrs." or "Ms."?
                  Then they'll probably respectfully accommodate those particular students and address them as Mr, Mrs or Ms.
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                    No sarcasm was intended.
                    I was afraid of that.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I was afraid of that.
                      Would you mind explaining what you apparently find problematic with my belief that they're well-intentioned but simply misguided?
                      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        Would you mind explaining what you apparently find problematic with my belief that they're well-intentioned but simply misguided?
                        Not at this time, thanks.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                          Source: Wall Street Journal


                          “Mr.,” “Mrs.” and “Ms.” are being shown the door at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.

                          In a new policy that has sparked debate among academics, school staffers have been advised to refrain from using gendered salutations in correspondence with students—and instead use a student’s full name, according to an internal memo sent out earlier this month.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Source

                          Such progress! When will science-denying bigots realize that biological sex is such an outdated, prejudicial, patriarchal, sexist, misogynist concept?

                          Edit: for some reason, when I got to this story via Google it was not blocked with a subscription, but it is in the link.
                          If I knew any older lady, I always call them Grandma.
                          Why do I dislike my generation so much right now?
                          "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                          "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                          Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                            Maybe I'm just feeling mean-spirited today, but there are some things that are so obviously ridiculous IMO that, well-meaning or not, they deserve to be mocked.

                            For example, I once read (rather, skimmed) a blog post by a feminist who argued, quite seriously, that sexual intercourse of any sort was by definition rape, and that consensual sex between a man and a woman was inherently impossible. She was not joking.
                            Well...I generally feel that mockery ought to be reserved only for when something is said or done in a clearly mean-spirited and/or arrogant manner. I'd say your typical atheist YouTube commenter and his/her prophets Dawkins and Maher are fair game, for instance. Can't put up this big venom-spewing show about how religious folks are irrational and grossly immoral while you fail to accurately represent their common arguments, irrationally reject germ theory or say mothers who bore babies with Down's Syndrome should've aborted them. Or I think of some rhetoric I saw from gay rights activists during the Chick-Fil-A controversy of 2012--although I ultimately agree with those activists on the issue of extending marriage rights, some of them said things that were so over-the-top and ungracious that it was infinitely more hateful than anything the Chick-Fil-A president had said or even implied.

                            On the other hand, if a skeptic claims to oppose religion and presents a fallacious, easily-refuted argument that's been used by someone like Dawkins but does so in an honest and reasonably civil manner, I don't believe that's deserving of mockery. It might well be that the skeptic genuinely cares about his or her fellow human beings and has been led to believe that religion is legitimately robbing people of truth and freedom and joy and life. If that was actually inherently true about religion, our hypothetical skeptic would technically be doing something commendable. So in cases like these, I believe it's far better to respond kindly and educate, rather than resorting to mockery. That's how I've always seen it, at least.

                            Besides, even if you disagree with all that, CUNY's reason for implementing this policy appears to be substantially different in content and tone from that stuff you sarcastically posted.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post

                              I don't think free speech was very well thought out, however nice it sounds in theory. It might work if it was put into practice the way it works in theory, but I don't see very many people willing to do that. Too many people still want you to not yell fire or bomb when they find it inconvenient.
                              If you're going to bring up the example of shouting fire (or bomb) then I guess I will point out that there are times when it is not only permissible but commendable -- such as when there really is a fire or bomb.

                              But more to the point, to compare shouting fire in a crowded theater with addressing someone by "Mr.," "Mrs." or "Ms." is ludicrous in the extreme -- especially considering that it almost always is used as a sign of respect. In fact the part of the U.S. that I live in it is only considered common courtesy to add such a title to someone's first name when they reach a certain age (like "Mr. John" or "Miss Karen"). Unfortunately in the past year or so I seem to have reached that "certain age" as nearly all the younger employees at where I work generally address me in such a fashion.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                I'm Miss Teal, to you, thank you very much.
                                We'll take better aim in the future


                                smiley-dodge-tomato.gif

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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