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Inclusive Language Tyranny?

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  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
    Insofar as you claim this to be a duty for all of us, you do need to detail the whole line of argument.
    As far as I see it, I only really need to detail the whole line of argument to those who disagree. However, if someone seriously disagrees that he has a duty to his society, I don't think an attempt to persuade likely to be successful, and frankly such a person is not worth bothering with.

    Where are you from and/or where were you born can be pretty innocent. Often enough these questions lead to what square_peg mentioned:
    Hold it right there. Those questions/actions were claimed to be micro-aggressions in and of themselves, not that they merely could lead to other questions. How is 'where are you from' an 'aggression'?

    Do you expect that a non-white ethnic group necessarily speaks another language? They don't. Where I come from, those with Mexican ancestors are very nearly the majority in many areas. Most of them are third or fourth generation Americans. Their great-grandparents probably spoke Spanish. They don't. Their parents don't. They still get asked that question.
    Asian-American, the pdf said. And what is wrong with asking? It may be naive or ignorant, but how is it 'aggression'?

    Do you expect that Asian-Americans are necessarily better at math or science? You want absurdity, you've got it right there.
    How is asking an Asian classmate necessarily assuming that they are better at math or science merely because of their race? How is it 'aggression'?

    I don't grant that it's either easily or necessarily inferable. With me so far?
    As I have mentioned to Zymologist, I don't consider you persuadable on this issue, so your acquiescence is not really important. Those with eyes to see can see that a) making people sensitive to 'aggressions' in a certain cultural context will lead them to discontinue them, and b) that discontinuing such 'aggressions' on such a basis would make them increasingly sensitive to such 'aggressions', thus creating a vicious cycle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carrikature
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    I did think that the idea of one having a duty to one's society's flourishing would be quite unobjectionable, but I guess I'm wrong. We begin with "love your neighbour as yourself". I believe you can see the train of thought and hope it's not necessary to detail the whole line of argument.
    Insofar as you claim this to be a duty for all of us, you do need to detail the whole line of argument. If you wish to restrict that duty to Christians, you needn't bother detailing it, but the claim becomes irrelevant.


    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Let's go through that PDF: How is "where are you from a microaggression?" Or “where were you born?” Or "asking an Asian American to teach ...words in their native language"? Or "asking an Asian person to help with a Math or Science problem"? Or the many other absurdities in that document?
    Where are you from and/or where were you born can be pretty innocent. Often enough these questions lead to what square_peg mentioned: Where are you really from. I've heard that question asked enough times. I did it myself, once. I know better now, though. The implicit assumption in the question "where are you from" is too often "you're not from here".

    Do you expect that a non-white ethnic group necessarily speaks another language? They don't. Where I come from, those with Mexican ancestors are very nearly the majority in many areas. Most of them are third or fourth generation Americans. Their great-grandparents probably spoke Spanish. They don't. Their parents don't. They still get asked that question.

    Do you expect that Asian-Americans are necessarily better at math or science? You want absurdity, you've got it right there. Of course they're not. It might be that actual Asians are better at these things, but it's not as if people raised within the American education system necessarily advance in certain subjects just because of their ethnicity. This isn't hard to figure out.


    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    What are we to make of the motives of those who claim such utter rubbish with the clear goals that people be sensitised to such imaginary 'aggressions' and and on this basis discontinue them? It is easily inferable that both goals form a vicious cycle, and that is very likely that this is intended. With me so far?
    I don't grant that it's either easily or necessarily inferable. With me so far?

    Leave a comment:


  • seasanctuary
    replied
    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I might be misunderstanding you, but are you claiming that there's a connection between care for doctrinal orthodoxy and callousness?
    I'm saying that someone can identify as a Christian due to their doctrinal orthodoxy, yet be calloused. More of a disconnection than a connection. Thanks for asking for clarification.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
    You haven't even argued it, just asserted it.
    I did think that the idea of one having a duty to one's society's flourishing would be quite unobjectionable, but I guess I'm wrong. We begin with "love your neighbour as yourself". I believe you can see the train of thought and hope it's not necessary to detail the whole line of argument.

    Little wonder that assumptions of motive are so often a fatal flaw, as you've so nicely demonstrated here. On what grounds should I, or anyone, accept your portrayal?
    Let's go through that PDF: How is "where are you from a microaggression?" Or “where were you born?” Or "asking an Asian American to teach ...words in their native language"? Or "asking an Asian person to help with a Math or Science problem"? Or the many other absurdities in that document?

    What are we to make of the motives of those who claim such utter rubbish with the clear goals that people be sensitised to such imaginary 'aggressions' and and on this basis discontinue them? It is easily inferable that both goals form a vicious cycle, and that is very likely that this is intended. With me so far?

    Leave a comment:


  • Carrikature
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    I certainly don't expect you to accept this line of alignment.
    You haven't even argued it, just asserted it.


    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    When people seek to create a vicious cycle by increasing sensitivity to non-existent 'assaults', 'hurts', etc and then attempting to stamp out all behavior that might triggered the newly created feels, which leads to increased sensitivity, ignoring such hurts serves not least to protect society from the insanity that is being engendered, as well as countering the immaturity that is propagated.
    Little wonder that assumptions of motive are so often a fatal flaw, as you've so nicely demonstrated here. On what grounds should I, or anyone, accept your portrayal?

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
    Even if I grant the former part (I don't)
    I certainly don't expect you to accept this line of alignment.
    it does not follow that society flourishes when people are encouraged to ignore the hurts they cause to others.
    When people seek to create a vicious cycle by increasing sensitivity to non-existent 'assaults', 'hurts', etc and then attempting to stamp out all behavior that might triggered the newly created feels, which leads to increased sensitivity, ignoring such hurts serves not least to protect society from the insanity that is being engendered, as well as countering the immaturity that is propagated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carrikature
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    It is one's duty to work for the flourishing of one's society. Society does not flourish when people are encouraged to nurse adolescent hurts about their feels to advance the agenda of progressives.
    Even if I grant the former part (I don't), it does not follow that society flourishes when people are encouraged to ignore the hurts they cause to others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
    It's not something you're guilty of. It's just that you benefit from a societal prejudice whether you notice or not.
    White privilege is a real thing in our society. Instead of playing word games effort should be made to make changes to society.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    It is one's duty to work for the flourishing of one's society. Society does not flourish when people are encouraged to nurse adolescent hurts about their feels to advance the agenda of progressives.
    It is the encouraged that I object to in this whole thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
    I wasn't claiming all Christians lack concern for the feelings of marginalized people, or even that Christianity encourages such heartlessness. In fact, I recall something laudable about not breaking a bruised reed or putting out a smoldering wick. But when doctrinal orthodoxy in other matters is the badge of being a Christian, there will be Christians who tell the bruised reeds to stop caring about being stepped on.
    A distortion of both Scripture and what I proposed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
    I suppose I'm just more bewildered at the apparent prevalence of the "bad examples".
    The prevalence is real, and prove the nefarious outcomes supported by the useful idiots.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
    It's a duty now, is it? Pray tell how you arrived at that consclusion.
    It is one's duty to work for the flourishing of one's society. Society does not flourish when people are encouraged to nurse adolescent hurts about their feels to advance the agenda of progressives.

    Leave a comment:


  • JonathanL
    replied
    Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
    But when doctrinal orthodoxy in other matters is the badge of being a Christian, there will be Christians who tell the bruised reeds to stop caring about being stepped on.
    I might be misunderstanding you, but are you claiming that there's a connection between care for doctrinal orthodoxy and callousness?

    Leave a comment:


  • seasanctuary
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    You mean the way people like you do when you toss around "white privilege" accusations?
    It's not something you're guilty of. It's just that you benefit from a societal prejudice whether you notice or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • seasanctuary
    replied
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Just in case my previous response to this was not clear:

    What you have done here is to play a typical liberal dishonest game. You took a legitimate difference of opinion (not one that breaks over religious lines) and used it to make a slur on Christianity. Are you proud of that dishonesty?
    I wasn't claiming all Christians lack concern for the feelings of marginalized people, or even that Christianity encourages such heartlessness. In fact, I recall something laudable about not breaking a bruised reed or putting out a smoldering wick. But when doctrinal orthodoxy in other matters is the badge of being a Christian, there will be Christians who tell the bruised reeds to stop caring about being stepped on.

    Leave a comment:

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