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Inclusive Language Tyranny?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
    what i'm hearing is that christianity does nothing to encourage political correctness.
    fify
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by square_peg View Post
      I'm Asian-American. I'm well-acquainted with issues pertaining to fellow members of the Asian-American community. Being asked "No, where are you REALLY from?" after having already given the answer is a common experience among many Asian-Americans. Thus, I reasonably assumed that that's what the document was referring to.
      So you are replying to your assumptions rather than actual posts now.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I would simply ask if you were Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese or Korean American. I don't see how that is offensive. Are you ashamed of your ethnicity? I am German-American and if someone asked me where my family came from, I would simply say "Germany on my mom's side, all over from my Dad's"

        My mom had an accent and people would always ask her where she was from. She would tell them "Germany" - she was not offended by it. It seems silly to get upset about something like that. People are just curious and don't mean to be offensive by asking.
        Again that is the solution - understand that what is seen as offensive is probably not. If it is intended to be offensive why give the offensive jerk the satisfaction of reacting to it. It all reminds me of the way "Yankees" adopted the offensive language of the "Red Coats."
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
          What I'm hearing is that Christianity does nothing for moral character.
          Just in case my previous response to this was not clear:

          What you have done here is to play a typical liberal dishonest game. You took a legitimate difference of opinion (not one that breaks over religious lines) and used it to make a slur on Christianity. Are you proud of that dishonesty?
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            How many blacks are told they have to be basketball players? That is an asinine comment.
            The point is that white people are well-represented in basically every field, whereas that's not true for black people. Many black people have consequently been led to believe that a career in basketball represents their only shot at success.

            And you are not even WHITE!!!! So I guess whiteness doesn't have the exclusive on "privilege" that you claim it does, huh?
            See, I never made any such claim about exclusive anything on privilege. Obviously, there are different types of privilege. I was just pointing out how one type that I and many other Americans benefit from is that of class, and how it makes no sense to portray it as "wealthy people are evil overlords."

            I bet you didn't know that there were middle and upper class black families too, did you? And lower class white people?
            Of course there are, and it's irrelevant to the point, thereby indicating that you somehow still don't actually understand what's being argued. You're conflating different types of privilege together. A wealthy black man might be more advantaged overall than a poor white woman, but the argument is that when you adjust all the variables to align except for race (i.e. comparing a wealthy black man to a wealthy white man, or a poor white woman to a poor black woman), the one who is white will probably be more advantaged.

            Really? show me the facts.

            According to this: http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
            Whites and blacks are equal in percentages of who is on welfare
            Uh, that doesn't support your claim--in fact, it supports mine. According to the census data, there are approximately six times as many white Americans as black Americans (roughly 78% of the US population to 13%), so if the percentage of white Americans who are on welfare was actually the same as the percentage of black Americans who are on welfare, then there should be six times as many TOTAL white Americans on welfare as total black Americans on welfare. What your chart says it actually displays, however, is "Percentage of [welfare] RECIPIENTS who are white/black," which it lists at 38.8% and 39.8%, respectively. That means that out of all the total Americans on welfare, white and black and other races combined, a random sample of 100 would have about 39 white people and 40 black people. But as I just pointed out, there are far more white people in American than black people, which means that if the amount of white people and black people in the group is about the same, there is a GROSSLY disproportionate percentage of black people who are on welfare.

            Let's work out the math. The population has since grown, but for the sake of mathematical simplicity we'll say the overall American population still stands at 300 million. About 78% of this population consists of white people, which means there's a total of 234 million white people, and 13% of 300 million yields a result of 39 million black people. Your chart says elsewhere that 4% of the population is on welfare. That means that there are about 12 million total Americans of all races on welfare. If roughly 39% are white, then there are about 4.7 million white people in America who are on welfare. Since, as I already demonstrated, there are about 234 million white Americans, that means that 2% of all white Americans are on welfare. Meanwhile, if roughly 40% of the 12 million Americans on welfare are black, there are 4.8 million black Americans on welfare, and with a total black American population of 39 million, about 12% of all black Americans are on welfare.

            So there are six times as many white Americans as black Americans, but the percentage of those black Americans on welfare is six times as high as the percentage of white Americans on welfare. This is FAR from equal. And as it turns out, I was technically wrong--there are actually MORE total black people on welfare than white people, despite there being six times as many total white people period as black people!

            And yet in every one of these threads, you whine about "white privilege" - sounds like playing the victim to me.
            Pointing out that white privilege exists and that something should be done to ensure true equality is "playing the victim?"
            Last edited by fm93; 03-04-2015, 04:04 PM.
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
              Let me try something a little different.

              I'm an introvert. I don't like to talk all that much, and when I first meet someone, my conversation is typically awkward, because I'm just not very good at talking to people. I'm very mild-mannered and all around a nice guy, I'm just lousy at making conversation (though I'm getting increasingly good at faking it). If I'm talking to someone and accidentally commit a "microaggression", you can be damn sure I didn't mean anything sinister by it. I'm just trying to make conversation. Poorly, probably, but I'm just trying to be friendly. Doing my limited best, and all that. If this person becomes offended because of an ordinary, typically inoffensive thing that I've said, my reaction would be something like, "No, that wasn't what I meant. I was just trying to be friendly; I'm sorry for the confusion." I would then likely never try to talk to that person again, and in addition I would be discouraged from trying to make conversation with people in general, because in my introvertedness it is simply not worth my time and effort. I'm already bad at making conversation, and if I am this likely to offend somebody by saying something purely innocent, then what's the point?

              So if something like that happened, I would be as polite and respectful as I could in response. Then, I would just talk even less than I do now, and be even more uncertain of myself than I am now anytime I did actually talk. I would likely struggle with feeling a bit offended at this person's quickness to assume sinister motives on my part, because I'm naturally thin-skinned and offense comes way too easily to me (I'm working on this).

              Because of the existence of "microaggressions" and whatnot, I am discouraged from attempting to be friendly, even in my own clumsy way. Is this better?
              I understand where you're coming from. I think the answer here is to cut yourself some slack, however easier said than done that may be. It's ok to mess up...you're not a bad person because of it. You can learn from these encounters when/if they happen, but also keep in mind that you're not going to get it all right. It's fine to avoid these people, too, especially if you're that lacking in confidence.

              I think an important part of what I've said in this thread has been repeatedly overlooked: people need to chill out with the assumption of motive. You're not sinister just because you unintentionally said something hurtful. They're not trying to force you to comply just because they find something hurtful.


              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
              It is one's duty not to yield to the tyranny and aggression of the language-policing anti-'microaggression' campaigns. Given the frivolity of many, if not most of the complaints it is only wise to assume that the complaints are unwarranted unless otherwise shown.
              It's a duty now, is it? Pray tell how you arrived at that consclusion.


              Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
              How does one know if one unintentionally hurts someone?

              K54
              Honest question: do you really have a hard time figuring this out in real life situations? Their body language is usually a big clue. Sometimes, they'll tell you outright.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                "Where are you from" was given as an example of an innocuous, acceptable question, but the document you linked paints it as a microaggression. It's like a no-win situation; anything you say is going to be dinged somehow.
                Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                Oh, yeah...that was my thought as well.
                I don't understand why it seems to be so difficult to grasp that things can have valid points without being 100% correct in every provided analogy/example.
                I'm not here anymore.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  I don't understand why it seems to be so difficult to grasp that things can have valid points without being 100% correct in every provided analogy/example.
                  I'm not sure what you mean.
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                    I'm not sure what you mean.
                    Does the existence of a bad example mean the occurrence under discussion does not exist? No.
                    I'm not here anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                      Does the existence of a bad example mean the occurrence under discussion does not exist? No.
                      Oh, I think I know what you mean. I suppose I'm just more bewildered at the apparent prevalence of the "bad examples". I'm fully aware that I'm capable of saying things that are hurtful (and reasonably so), but that weren't intended to be so.
                      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        If there was a black man who was equally as poor as that white man and wore tattered clothes and had a haggard look and lived on a dirty street just like him, the police would be far more likely to apprehend the black man, or society would be far more likely to believe that the white man is poor due to misfortune while deciding that the black man is poor due to laziness.

                        Having privilege isn't something that one should feel ashamed or guilty about; to the contrary, the proper response ought to be simple humility and honesty. I don't have any problem admitting that as a male, I've benefited and/or avoided negative effects compared to women. And though I'm not white, Asians are relatively racially privileged compared to black people and other folks with dark skin, so I also in a sense have a degree of privilege in that if an Asian person commits some heinous crime, my entire race won't be slandered for it.
                        So what do you suggest be done about it? Have a arrest quota for haggard white men?

                        And being a homeless bum is not a crime, so your point -- as with so many white-guilt racists - is not only specious but abets the propagation of racism.

                        Dr. M.L. King would be ashamed of profession race-baiters like Al Dullton, Jesse Jackson, and white-guilt racists pandering to the lowest common denominator of society.

                        You people make me sick.

                        K54

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                          Oh, I think I know what you mean. I suppose I'm just more bewildered at the apparent prevalence of the "bad examples". I'm fully aware that I'm capable of saying things that are hurtful (and reasonably so), but that weren't intended to be so.


                          I'm not really sure how to describe it well. It's like the wife in some tv show who gets really upset that the husband didn't put his spoon in the dishwasher the right way (or something equally trivial). She's not really upset about the spoon. She's upset about something else entirely. Once you get through the crying and the tears (ok I'm being really cliche here but w/e), you can start to get at what's really going on. The spoon is trivial and easily dismissed. What's really going on is hard to figure out but important. In the context of this thread, I'd liken the bad examples to the spoon.
                          I'm not here anymore.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                            So what do you suggest be done about it? Have a arrest quota for haggard white men?
                            No. Try to condition people to not make internal or external discriminations against people on the basis of race.

                            And being a homeless bum is not a crime, so your point -- as with so many white-guilt racists - is not only specious but abets the propagation of racism.
                            What? Of course being homeless isn't a crime. How's that relevant to anything? And pointing out that society needs to work to erase a certain racist double standard somehow itself spreads racism?

                            Dr. M.L. King would be ashamed of profession race-baiters like Al Dullton, Jesse Jackson, and white-guilt racists pandering to the lowest common denominator of society.
                            I have no clue what you mean by this, but Dr. King, who yearned that his children could sit at the table of brotherhood with people of all races and be treated as equals, judged not by the color of their skin, would certainly disapprove of the standard that I mentioned above.

                            You people make me sick.

                            K54
                            Careful. You're starting to sound like the Jorge of social issues.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                              No. Try to condition people to not make internal or external discriminations against people on the basis of race.
                              You mean the way people like you do when you toss around "white privilege" accusations?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                Just in case my previous response to this was not clear:

                                What you have done here is to play a typical liberal dishonest game. You took a legitimate difference of opinion (not one that breaks over religious lines) and used it to make a slur on Christianity. Are you proud of that dishonesty?
                                I wasn't claiming all Christians lack concern for the feelings of marginalized people, or even that Christianity encourages such heartlessness. In fact, I recall something laudable about not breaking a bruised reed or putting out a smoldering wick. But when doctrinal orthodoxy in other matters is the badge of being a Christian, there will be Christians who tell the bruised reeds to stop caring about being stepped on.

                                Comment

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