Inclusive Language Tyranny?

[Sparko]

As I figured. I and others have provided specific evidence of cases in which race itself is a factor providing some individuals unfairly conferred benefits over others (i.e. "special privilege") and the only response is to ignore them and insist on same vague claptrap like "We all have to work within our limitations. Whether it be intelligence, health, race, sex, location, etc."

And I can't help but point out the irony of klaus54--you spend so much time ripping on YECs for denying a well-supported phenomenon, yet you deny the existence of a well-supported phenomenon yourself.

What about black privilege? What are the chances of a white guy making it into pro basketball compared to a black guy?

You really are a racist of the worse kind square_peg. You see whites as these evil overlords that have enslaved the world. There are just as many, if not more underprivileged and poor white people than of other races. You and other racists like you just love being the "victim" because it relieves you of responsibility for your own failures.

[KingsGambit]

Equality under the law may not be enough; the law needs to be enforced equally. (The law was "separate but equal" for years, but there was no equality in practice.) The headline today is that the US Justice Department found that the police and courts in Ferguson, MO, over a period of years, did not hold whites and blacks to the same legal standard. There was also a case in my hometown where a police officer got caught on tape admitting he was out looking for black people to pull over.

[seasanctuary]

Whether it be intelligence, health, race, sex, location, etc. But going around claiming that white people have special privilege is BS. In fact, it is racist.

There's more to equal treatment than legal equality.

But thanks for providing an example of how color blindness is detrimental to the goal of racial equality.

[Sparko]

Equality under the law may not be enough; the law needs to be enforced equally. (The law was "separate but equal" for years, but there was no equality in practice.) The headline today is that the US Justice Department found that the police and courts in Ferguson, MO, over a period of years, did not hold whites and blacks to the same legal standard. There was also a case in my hometown where a police officer got caught on tape admitting he was out looking for black people to pull over.

Well Affirmative Action is definitely not enforcing equality. It is the exact opposite.

In my hometown, the police chief IS black. so there.

[KingsGambit]

Well Affirmative Action is definitely not enforcing equality. It is the exact opposite.

In my hometown, the police chief IS black. so there.

I'm not a fan of affirmative action because it implies that minorities aren't good enough to achieve on their own; however, that's different from what I'm talking about here.

[fm93]

What about black privilege? What are the chances of a white guy making it into pro basketball compared to a black guy?

Even if this was actually a significant and relevant point, it wouldn't deny the existence of the already-cited examples. At best, it would mean that whiteness unfairly confers benefits in some areas, while blackness unfairly confers benefits in other areas, and that both need to be addressed to usher in true equality--and you'll notice that that means whiteness does confer privilege in some areas. But anyhow, I'll answer that with another question--how many white people have been led to believe that a professional basketball career is their only chance of escape, due to black people often being seen and treated as unqualified for success in other careers?

You really are a racist of the worse kind square_peg. You see whites as these evil overlords that have enslaved the world.

Here is where I point out to all the reasonable people out there that I've said nothing of the sort, and here's where you respond with some absurd rebuttal that it's actually I who am changing my own claims, despite the clear fact that the initial claim isn't being changed because it was never made.

Seriously, this is annoying. And in regard to you, it's honestly embarrassing to see a grown man like yourself resort to such juvenile tactics. Growing up, I was well-fed every day and could sleep in a warm, cozy bed every night. Many other people in the world weren't and couldn't. Compared to them, I had the special privilege of having two caring parents who earned enough money to afford these things for me and the rest of the family. Obviously, recognizing this simple form of privilege doesn't entail thinking that my parents are evil overlords who've enslaved the world, nor does it entail believing that I'm somehow evil for being born to caring, wealthy-enough parents. It's a simple matter of recognizing that some people who are worse off than me probably lacked the privileges that I was given, and that I happen to reap the benefits of being born to caring parents. Likewise, the other issue is merely one of recognizing that whiteness is less likely to lead to disadvantages in this society. There is absolutely nothing about being evil or enslaving anything.

There are just as many, if not more underprivileged and poor white people than of other races.

Possibly, but it's out of proportion compared to folks who aren't white. That's basic fact.

You and other racists like you just love being the "victim" because it relieves you of responsibility for your own failures.

Enough of this. You never take the time to bother to understand what's being said. What's being advocated is that people who lack positions of privilege should be inspired to work all the harder to overcome the disadvantages, while those who are in positions of privilege work to reduce the inequality. There's nothing about sitting back and moping in victimhood.

[Jedidiah]

In regard to that specific example, I think you're misrepresenting it. I believe the issue is more like this apparently common scenario:

Asian person: *says something in perfect English
White person: Where are you from?
Asian person: I'm from [insert American city/state here].
White person: No, where are you REALLY from?

As evidenced by the fact that the Asian person speaks perfect English and specifically provided an American city/state, it should be clear that the Asian person is from America. He/she was born and raised in this country, just like you. Asking "where are you REALLY from," rather than simply "where are you from," is thus seen as problematic because, well, why would you need to ask it again with that qualifier? The Asian person already gave you the specific answer. The white person's response implies that the American city/state--the actual truth--is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, that what matters more is what country the Asian person's ancestors came from, rather than where the Asian person actually lives. When a white person is asked "where are you from," there's never the follow-up "No, where are you REALLY from? England? France? Italy?" Nor are black people later asked "Where are you REALLY from? Nigeria? Ethiopia? Kenya?" Asian people for some reason are more likely to be seen as not fully American as white Americans or African-Americans.

So yeah, no one's going to feel annoyed if you simply ask "Where are you from?" On its own, the "No, where are you REALLY from?" question isn't that bad, and Asians could certainly "just get over it," but do you see how it could get really annoying and naturally prime some people to suspect racist motives if it keeps happening?

Why do you twist his post like this? I suspect you were not around when this hypothetical event occurred. Why make up stuff to distort what he said?

[Jedidiah]

However, I would then realize that I don't have to be offended by something like that, and I would do my best to get over it.

This is really the only solution that has a chance of success. Teach people to not be offended by what ever the latest trivial PC garbage says is offensive. It is an individual problem, not a social one.

[seasanctuary]

This is really the only solution that has a chance of success. Teach people to not be offended by what ever the latest trivial PC garbage says is offensive. It is an individual problem, not a social one.

What I'm hearing is that Christianity does nothing for moral character.

[Paprika]

See the microaggression document linked on page two of this thread. "Where are you from" (not "Where are you REALLY from") is explicitly cited as a microaggression.

Note how the (relatively) moderates cover for the extremists, while the extremists use the support of the moderates to posture as if they had wider support and thus advance their agenda. As square_peg has made clear, their Equality agenda goes beyond establishing equal treatment under the law - they attempt social engineering on a mass scale to meet their vision of an Equal society.

This is not new: as regards race, there is Affirmative Action, discrimination against whites and riots; as regards sex the results range from abortion of millions to the 'right' of contraception to the recent unjust 'trials' of alleged college rapists; as regards homosexuality there have been increasing attacks against those who dare to oppose in word, action, or donation.

They hold firmly to their dogma, and your attempts to reason with them are unlikely to succeed.

[fm93]

Why do you twist his post like this? I suspect you were not around when this hypothetical event occurred. Why make up stuff to distort what he said?

I'm Asian-American. I'm well-acquainted with issues pertaining to fellow members of the Asian-American community. Being asked "No, where are you REALLY from?" after having already given the answer is a common experience among many Asian-Americans. Thus, I reasonably assumed that that's what the document was referring to.

[Zymologist]

I'm Asian-American. I'm well-acquainted with issues pertaining to fellow members of the Asian-American community. Being asked "No, where are you REALLY from?" after having already given the answer is a common experience among many Asian-Americans. Thus, I reasonably assumed that that's what the document was referring to.

I didn't respond to your earlier post because I didn't know how. I quoted the document verbatim, and you told me I was misrepresenting it, and then added a word to the quote and said that's what the author really meant. Perhaps so, but in that case that is his failure to communicate; not my failure in interpreting. If the author meant to include the word "really" in that sentence, perhaps he should have simply included it.

By the way, if someone became offended when I asked them "Where are you from?", would you consider their offense ridiculous and unwarranted, or would you just exhort me to be more sensitive?

[Sparko]

Even if this was actually a significant and relevant point, it wouldn't deny the existence of the already-cited examples. At best, it would mean that whiteness unfairly confers benefits in some areas, while blackness unfairly confers benefits in other areas, and that both need to be addressed to usher in true equality--and you'll notice that that means whiteness does confer privilege in some areas. But anyhow, I'll answer that with another question--how many white people have been led to believe that a professional basketball career is their only chance of escape, due to black people often being seen and treated as unqualified for success in other careers?

How many blacks are told they have to be basketball players? That is an asinine comment.

Growing up, I was well-fed every day and could sleep in a warm, cozy bed every night. Many other people in the world weren't and couldn't. Compared to them, I had the special privilege of having two caring parents who earned enough money to afford these things for me and the rest of the family. Obviously, recognizing this simple form of privilege doesn't entail thinking that my parents are evil overlords who've enslaved the world, nor does it entail believing that I'm somehow evil for being born to caring, wealthy-enough parents.

And you are not even WHITE!!!! So I guess whiteness doesn't have the exclusive on "privilege" that you claim it does, huh?

I bet you didn't know that there were middle and upper class black families too, did you? And lower class white people? Amazing isn't it? Heck you probably had it better off than I did. Who paid for your college? Your parents? My parents couldn't afford to pay for me to go to college. I had to go to a trade schools and pay my own way. Only later in life did I have enough money to go to college.

Possibly, but it's out of proportion compared to folks who aren't white. That's basic fact.

Really? show me the facts.

According to this: http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Whites and blacks are equal in percentages of who is on welfare

Enough of this. You never take the time to bother to understand what's being said. What's being advocated is that people who lack positions of privilege should be inspired to work all the harder to overcome the disadvantages, while those who are in positions of privilege work to reduce the inequality. There's nothing about sitting back and moping in victimhood.

And yet in every one of these threads, you whine about "white privilege" - sounds like playing the victim to me.

[fm93]

I didn't respond to your earlier post because I didn't know how. I quoted the document verbatim, and you told me I was misrepresenting it, and then added a word to the quote and said that's what the author really meant. Perhaps so, but in that case that is his failure to communicate; not my failure in interpreting. If the author meant to include the word "really" in that sentence, perhaps he should have simply included it.

By the way, if someone became offended when I asked them "Where are you from?", would you consider their offense ridiculous and unwarranted, or would you just exhort me to be more sensitive?

There are three possible options when it comes to issues of offense--it's understandable and warranted, it's overblown but understandable, or it's essentially nonsensical. Taking offense at simply "Where are you from" when the context is merely one of a friendly conversation category obviously falls into the last category. The times I've exhorted more sensitivity come in cases that fit in the first two categories.

[Sparko]

There are three possible options when it comes to issues of offense--it's understandable and warranted, it's overblown but understandable, or it's essentially nonsensical. Taking offense at simply "Where are you from" when the context is merely one of a friendly conversation category obviously falls into the last category. The times I've exhorted more sensitivity come in cases that fit in the first two categories.

I would simply ask if you were Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese or Korean American. I don't see how that is offensive. Are you ashamed of your ethnicity? I am German-American and if someone asked me where my family came from, I would simply say "Germany on my mom's side, all over from my Dad's"

My mom had an accent and people would always ask her where she was from. She would tell them "Germany" - she was not offended by it. It seems silly to get upset about something like that. People are just curious and don't mean to be offensive by asking.